IOM Constabulary recruitment

[Derek Flint]

14 minutes ago, cheesypeas said:

Reasonable force. Isn’t that what the law specifies ? Easy to pull a trigger when pepper spray would do the same job. That pissed guy in Pulrose could have been subdued without pointing guns at him. It’s just total overkill and makes the Police look silly. I could understand it if we lived in some dodgy inner city spot, but we don’t. 

But they didn't pull the trigger, did they?

See.the 0.02% statistic above.

But to be clear, pepper spray and that's it? 

 

[cheesypeas]

5 minutes ago, Derek Flint said:

But they didn't pull the trigger, did they?

See.the 0.02% statistic above.

But to be clear, pepper spray and that's it? 

 

…..tasers, batons, so no, that’s not it. No they didn’t  shoot him, but they did point at him. We’ll need to agree to disagree on this one. Just not necessary to walk up and down Strand Street with firearms in my opinion. 

 

Edited August 21 by cheesypeas

[Sheldon]

6 minutes ago, Derek Flint said:

But to be clear, pepper spray and that's it? 

"Officer! Me child's been kidnapped!" 
"Calm down, ma'am, it's all under control. I've got a whistle, a cloth helmet, a key to a call box, a soft rubber truncheon, and a map of the city."
"Please hurry!"

[WTF]

58 minutes ago, cheesypeas said:

…..tasers, batons, so no, that’s not it. No they didn’t  shoot him, but they did point at him. We’ll need to agree to disagree on this one. Just not necessary to walk up and down Strand Street with firearms in my opinion. 

 

but the shouting and the guns are for intimidation and to show who has the bigger dick ,  a person will do as they're told more readily if they have gun pointed at them.

[cheesypeas]

16 minutes ago, WTF said:

but the shouting and the guns are for intimidation and to show who has the bigger dick ,  a person will do as they're told more readily if they have gun pointed at them.

I see loads of folks going about their lunchtime business in Strand Street who need shouting at and intimidating. Jeez. 

 

[Roger Mexico]

5 hours ago, Fred the shred said:

I know quite a lot of people one way or another and not one of them owns a gun.    The figure of one in 28 households seems nonsensical to me it must have been arrived at by the number of gun certificates issued and then divided by households when some people , farmers and people who shoot for sport, must hold multiple guns so the idea that one on 28 households owns a gun is total rubbish.   I wonder how long it took to take a statistician to work that one out, obviously some highly paid government worker who was filling in time until retirement.    Completely bonkers.

It's a meaningless statistic because the firearms certificates are issued to individuals not households and the responsibility of the holder is that other people don't have access, including members of the same household, unless they have their own certificate.  According to UK Home Office figures there were "516,500 people who held a firearm and or a shotgun certificate" at the end of March 2023 in England and Wales.  That's from a population of around 60.9 million, so about 1 in every 120 people or so.

As so often with information on what is going on locally we have to rely on Jason Moorhouse who asked a question in July 2022 and got this response:

[...] data is provided on the number of firearms certificates (FAC) and regulated weapons certificates (RWC) granted each year in the Chief Constable’s Annual report.

FACs are required for all cartridge rifles and pistols, muzzle loading (black powder) guns and pistols, air rifles with power in excess of 12 ft.lbs/16.3joules, air pistols with power in excess of 6 ft.lbs/8.15joules, and self-loading and pump action shotguns with a magazine capacity in excess of 2 rounds, shotguns with a barrel length of less that 24 inches and sound moderators.

RWCs are required for all shotguns, except those mentioned above, all air weapons below the power levels stated above and all crossbows with a draw weight over 1.4kg.

The total number of live FACs and RWCs at the end of each crime year is also recorded. The data for the last ten years is provided in Table 1 below.  It should be noted that the lengths of these two certificates differ, with FACs running between fixed triennial periods, and RWCs on a rolling ten-year period. For this reason renewals for FAC is not a meaningful statistic.

Table 1: Live Firearms and Regulated Weapons certificates by Crime Year

And we know from the latest Chief Constables Report that there were 719 FACs and 1620 RWCs at end March 23.  Unfortunately we don't have the combined figure and many of those with an FAC will also have a RWC.  For example in another reply to Moorhouse we find that there were 21 revocations of licence since 2017 but of these "21 individuals, 10 [...] held both forms of licence".  Which might suggest nearly all FAC holders also had a RWC.  So the total number of holders might only be 1800 or so.

With an Isle of Man population of 84,500 or so, this would be around 1 in 47 persons.  This would be about the same difference in ratio as those household statistics suggest and would be for the same reasons that the Phantom suggested earlier.  There's nothing to say that the figures for similar parts of the UK would be any different from the Isle of Man's.

[RecklessAbandon]

15 hours ago, The Phantom said:

You'd be a bit more informed on your wild ramblings and fear of them then.

I have zero fear of firearms.  I have fear of those that fetishise them and those who maybe shouldn't have access to them but do.

Quote

Plus few gun crimes in the UK are carries out using legally held weapons. 

However, the vast majority of illegal firearms started out life as legal firearms.

[RecklessAbandon]

12 hours ago, Sheldon said:

"Officer! Me child's been kidnapped!" 
"Calm down, ma'am, it's all under control. I've got a whistle, a cloth helmet, a key to a call box, a soft rubber truncheon, and a map of the city."
"Please hurry!"

Does that happen often on the IOM?

Also, what is an armed copper going to do in a child abduction situation?

[RecklessAbandon]

"To a hammer, every problem is a nail" - Abraham Maslow.

So if police management is big on arming the force, then every solution will involve an armed office.

Drunken disorderly - ARV 

Child abduction - ARV

Speeding - multiple ARVs and a PIT maneuver.

[Sheldon]

3 hours ago, RecklessAbandon said:

Does that happen often on the IOM?

Also, what is an armed copper going to do in a child abduction situation?

[Two-lane]

15 hours ago, WTF said:

but the shouting and the guns are for intimidation and to show who has the bigger dick ,  a person will do as they're told more readily if they have gun pointed at them.

I am not sure how you intended this to be interpreted, however...

There is no point in pointing a gun at someone unless there is the intent to use it. If the "terrorist" or town drunk knows that there is no intent to pull the trigger, then there is no threat.

Ipso ergo sum, or some other fancy Latin phrase, in The Pulrose Incident the police involved must have had the willingness to pull the trigger.

Frightening.

[RecklessAbandon]

The police should be putting money into de-escalation training rather than tooling up for CQB in down town Compton.

As much as the UK police are following the US trend of militarising, I wonder how long it will be before we are seeing urban "mini-tanks" on the streets.

[Roger Mexico]

23 hours ago, The Phantom said:

It is a statistical certainty that there are more knife and gun crimes in the UK than ever before.   

No there isn't.  With regard to knife crime, the figures are high but are actually still lower than before the pandemic:

Digging through the footnotes, it sems the ONS are a bit sceptical about the increase from the mid-teens and feel that better recording or more rigorous enforcement may be responsible for at least part of the apparent increase.  This is to some extend supported by the way that the most detectable, the number of homicides "using a sharp instrument" doesn't alter as dramatically:

Though of course the numbers are small and individual events can influence it (the 2002-3 peak in total homicides is due to Harold Shipman).

With regard to firearms, there has actually been a considerable decline over the years:

The figure seem to be static at that level since 2019.  The figure for homicides shows an even bigger fall over the years:

Though again numbers are small and distorted by individual events (eg the 2010 peak from Cumbria).

Edited August 22 by Roger Mexico
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[Two-lane]

And while I am in the mood for a bit of a rant. All the Hollywood films and stuff say that you should never point a gun at someone, even in fun, in case it accidently goes off.

What would have happened if a gun had accidently gone off during The Pulrose Incident? Would the police officer have said "It should not have happened. It was just an accident. I never had any intention whatsoever to pull the trigger. It was just for show".

No doubt Derek Flint will argue that a police officer would never accidently pull the trigger, and a police gun has never gone off unintentionally. Because the police are highly trained, and all that.

[The Phantom]

1 hour ago, Roger Mexico said:

No there isn't.  With regard to knife crime, the figures are high but are actually still lower than before the pandemic:

Digging through the footnotes, it sems the ONS are a bit sceptical about the increase from the mid-teens and feel that better recording or more rigorous enforcement may be responsible for at least part of the apparent increase.  This is to some extend supported by the way that the most detectable, the number of homicides "using a sharp instrument" doesn't alter as dramatically:

 

Oh well there we go.  I'm believing the media hype on knife crime Britain! 

1 hour ago, Two-lane said:

And while I am in the mood for a bit of a rant. All the Hollywood films and stuff say that you should never point a gun at someone, even in fun, in case it accidently goes off.

What would have happened if a gun had accidently gone off during The Pulrose Incident? Would the police officer have said "It should not have happened. It was just an accident. I never had any intention whatsoever to pull the trigger. It was just for show".

No doubt Derek Flint will argue that a police officer would never accidently pull the trigger, and a police gun has never gone off unintentionally. Because the police are highly trained, and all that.

You shouldn't believe everything you see in Hollywood.  They never 'accidentally go off' but you might accidentally pull the trigger.  But yes, (obviously with exception of targets/training) I was always taught that you don't/can't bluff with a gun.  You only point it at someone you are willing, able and justified to kill.  Even at the Range if you point your gun anywhere other than at the targets, whether loaded or not, you are likely going to get bollocked. 

Comparing the Pully incident to the recent one in Manchester is an interesting exercise though.  Even though they were stamping on his head after he had broken a female police officer's nose, you'll notice that none of the Police had actually pulled or pointed their gun.