La Colombe Posted July 25 Author Share Posted July 25 Nor me, but I wouldn't like to guess which side. I'm not convinced there's even been one yet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 21 hours ago, joebean said: Quoting The Guardian as an indication of what might happen as a result of a Trump presidency is a desperate method of confirming an opinion. Let’s remind ourselves that Trump has been the US President before. I agree that some of his foreign policy opinions are ill-conceived, but the end of the world and life as we know it is not threatened. Try telling that to Ukrainians because I'm sure that from bitter experience they'll take a different view... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
code99 Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 (edited) On 7/25/2024 at 9:24 AM, joebean said: Quoting The Guardian as an indication of what might happen as a result of a Trump presidency is a desperate method of confirming an opinion. Let’s remind ourselves that Trump has been the US President before. I agree that some of his foreign policy opinions are ill-conceived, but the end of the world and life as we know it is not threatened. Although most politicians seldom leave office with an unblemished reputation and their integrity totally intact, Trump will go down in history as a special case. You don’t need to be a Guardian reader to understand how egregious Trump has been - all you need to do is to casually follow the mainstream news or do a tiny bit of your own research. Anyway, let’s agree to disagree regarding what the consequences of Trumps’s second term in office might be for America and the rest of the world. Numerous authors of books about Trump, everyone from his relatives to the acclaimed professionals like Bob Woodward, have documented his falsehoods (aka “alternative facts”) and misdemeanours. I think that Kamala Harris’s succinct description of Trump as a “liar, a fraudster and a cheat” sums him up pretty well. Why therefore would I want the democratically elected political leader of the world's major Superpower, and leader of “the Free West”, to be like him? I also believe that elevating sexual predators to high-office is completely unacceptable, especially during a time when sexual attacks on women and girls are far from uncommon. The feeling is that the Democrats are unlikely to retain the Senate and the Republicans will hold the House. Therefore, it is imperative that Trump does not win the presidential election and that he goes away ‘gracefully’ without stirring up senseless cynical insurrection. I know, that may be wishful thinking! Edited July 26 by code99 typo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joebean Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 (edited) 3 hours ago, P.K. said: Try telling that to Ukrainians because I'm sure that from bitter experience they'll take a different view... I’d like to see the US continue to support Ukraine, but if it doesn’t then Europe will have to step up to the plate as it Europe that is being threatened by Putin’s brand of imperialism. If the voters in the US vote for Trump they get Trump. Like in the UK, the US has a whole series of political and organisational barriers to the implementation of radical policy. Those on the new “left” tend to engage in hysteria whenever a figure on the right emerges and The Guardian is one of the most strident mouthpieces of that tendency. Reading what they “report” and believing it is just a bit silly. Project 25 is a pressure group that Trump will pander to for their votes. The prospect of their policy platform becoming Trump Presidency objectives which will be implemented during his term is highly unlikely. However, if hysteria is your thing, go with it. Edited July 26 by joebean 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RecklessAbandon Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 13 hours ago, quilp said: Wouldn't be at all surprised if there was another attempted assassination. I'm sure JD Vance wants Jennifer Aniston assassinated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 1 minute ago, joebean said: Project 25 is a pressure group that Trump will pander to for their votes. The prospect of their policy platform becoming Trump Presidency objectives which will be implemented during his term is highly unlikely. However, if hysteria is your thing, go with it. It may well be a pressure group but we don't have to look too far to find out how much influence unelected think tanks can have. The UK has spent years in thrall to a whole host of them which have had a big influence on the Conservative Party. Liz Truss in particular was one of those heavily influenced and look at how well that went. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phat Tog Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 Getting back on topic for a moment, I noticed some youtube satirists pointing out that the "Joe Biden" that emerged from his 6 day absence seems to be a good bit taller than before - 6 to 8 inches has been hypothesised. A Biden v2.0 if you like... That said I couldn't see what he had on his feet - maybe some of those ridiculous stacked soles that De Niro was wearing recently. Discuss.... Also, in the interests of equity I would like to suggest some tracks for a Biden playlist. There are some crossovers from the Trump list, which I think are perfectly pertinent: Money, Money, Money - Abba Creep - Radiohead Fuckin' Up - Neil Young Ice Cream Man - Blur I Can't Stand Up For Falling Down - Elvis Costello Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 (edited) On 7/26/2024 at 9:21 AM, joebean said: I’d like to see the US continue to support Ukraine, but if it doesn’t then Europe will have to step up to the plate as it Europe that is being threatened by Putin’s brand of imperialism. If the voters in the US vote for Trump they get Trump. Like in the UK, the US has a whole series of political and organisational barriers to the implementation of radical policy. Those on the new “left” tend to engage in hysteria whenever a figure on the right emerges and The Guardian is one of the most strident mouthpieces of that tendency. Reading what they “report” and believing it is just a bit silly. Project 25 is a pressure group that Trump will pander to for their votes. The prospect of their policy platform becoming Trump Presidency objectives which will be implemented during his term is highly unlikely. However, if hysteria is your thing, go with it. @joebean Have to say I've never known the Guardian to be "strident" about anything! They leave the hysterical nonsense to the gutter press like the Mail, the Express, the Sun and the Telegraph. I'm very intrigued about the "new left" you mention though. What demographic are they? Incidentally in the UK any safeguards against "radical" policies didn't stop Bozo making the entire economy take a leap into the dark with Brexit and it doesn't get any more radical than that! However during that time the Supreme Court did take Bozo to task over illegally proroguing parliament. That couldn't happen in the US because their judges are all political appointees which is how a convicted felon can run for President. Trump claims he can quickly end the war in Ukraine. I shudder to think how and so do the Ukrainians. Another Trump presidency will be a very dark time for democracies... Edited July 27 by P.K. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joebean Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 On 7/27/2024 at 11:19 AM, P.K. said: @joebean Have to say I've never known the Guardian to be "strident" about anything! They leave the hysterical nonsense to the gutter press like the Mail, the Express, the Sun and the Telegraph. I'm very intrigued about the "new left" you mention though. What demographic are they? Incidentally in the UK any safeguards against "radical" policies didn't stop Bozo making the entire economy take a leap into the dark with Brexit and it doesn't get any more radical than that! However during that time the Supreme Court did take Bozo to task over illegally proroguing parliament. That couldn't happen in the US because their judges are all political appointees which is how a convicted felon can run for President. Trump claims he can quickly end the war in Ukraine. I shudder to think how and so do the Ukrainians. Another Trump presidency will be a very dark time for democracies... If you view The Guardian as being a source of accurate and reasoned reporting, I will claim the same of The Telegraph. Both papers make money by reporting what their readers want to read and put slant and emphasis on that. In fact, a lot of their output is not “news” at all; just opinion. As for Brexit, I think you might recall that it was a result of a referendum where both sides of the debate presented their own versions of the supposed facts. The voters had to decide which bits were wheat and chaff and made their choice. It was as much of a leap in the dark as joining the Common Market in the 70s. Have been around long enough to know that the Left that I grew up with and supported in my youth was quite different to the “Left” of today. The focus of the two versions is quite different. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 43 minutes ago, joebean said: If you view The Guardian as being a source of accurate and reasoned reporting, I will claim the same of The Telegraph. Both papers make money by reporting what their readers want to read and put slant and emphasis on that. In fact, a lot of their output is not “news” at all; just opinion. As for Brexit, I think you might recall that it was a result of a referendum where both sides of the debate presented their own versions of the supposed facts. The voters had to decide which bits were wheat and chaff and made their choice. It was as much of a leap in the dark as joining the Common Market in the 70s. Have been around long enough to know that the Left that I grew up with and supported in my youth was quite different to the “Left” of today. The focus of the two versions is quite different. Well there goes your street cred with that nonsense. The Barclay brothers purchased the title for £665m in 2004. They then sacked a load of journalists and reduced it to a rabid anti-EU propaganda sheet that has sunk so low that Nadhim Zahawi thinks he can now buy it for just £600m - 20 years later! Who doesn't know that brexit came about via an "advisory" referendum...? However coming out of the Single Market and Customs Union was down to Bozo and was beyond stupid. Where were the "safeguards" against radical stupidity then? You haven't explained what you mean by "new left" by way of demographics, aims, policies and so forth. I'm interested to hear what they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joebean Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 7 hours ago, P.K. said: Well there goes your street cred with that nonsense. The Barclay brothers purchased the title for £665m in 2004. They then sacked a load of journalists and reduced it to a rabid anti-EU propaganda sheet that has sunk so low that Nadhim Zahawi thinks he can now buy it for just £600m - 20 years later! Who doesn't know that brexit came about via an "advisory" referendum...? However coming out of the Single Market and Customs Union was down to Bozo and was beyond stupid. Where were the "safeguards" against radical stupidity then? You haven't explained what you mean by "new left" by way of demographics, aims, policies and so forth. I'm interested to hear what they are. “Beyond stupid” is a matter of opinion not shared by 52% of the voters at the time. Your apparent contempt for the opinion of those voters says everything you need to know about the left today, compared to the left of 40 years ago. I’m not going to comply with your wish for a more detailed explanation since doing so would only extend a debate with you that I have no interest in extending. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 1 hour ago, joebean said: “Beyond stupid” is a matter of opinion not shared by 52% of the voters at the time. Your apparent contempt for the opinion of those voters says everything you need to know about the left today, compared to the left of 40 years ago. I’m not going to comply with your wish for a more detailed explanation since doing so would only extend a debate with you that I have no interest in extending. @joebean Excuse me but at the time of the referendum vote 52% had simply had no idea that Bozo would take the UK out of the Single Market and Customs Union. I mean, how could they possibly know just how stupid he could be...? I don't have contempt for those voters because they were conned by the dreadful UK right wing press in thrall to the anti-EU agenda of the owner, which is to say pretty much all of it*, and lying, self-centred chancers like Farage, Gove and Johnson. Who doesn't know that...? At least I now know your left-wing comparison baseline which is 1984. What a very ironic date as I'm sure you'll agree! The appalling Thatcher creature was in power with Labour, having moved on from Michael Foot and his duffel coat, were being led by Kinnochio who nobody could ever see as Prime Ministerial material for no other reason than he simply wasn't up to it. IMHO the real sea change in Labour's policies came about with the realisation that in modern Britain you have to take the political centre ground to get elected. Step forward Blair and Brown. The rest, as they say, is history... * Incidentally as far as the UK right wing MSM goes the Telegraph was front and centre in spouting the most appalling hairy sphericals about the EU at the behest of it's non-dom tax-dodging owners. And you think it's a source of "accurate and reasoned" reporting... Laughable! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joebean Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 15 hours ago, P.K. said: @joebean Excuse me but at the time of the referendum vote 52% had simply had no idea that Bozo would take the UK out of the Single Market and Customs Union. I mean, how could they possibly know just how stupid he could be...? I don't have contempt for those voters because they were conned by the dreadful UK right wing press in thrall to the anti-EU agenda of the owner, which is to say pretty much all of it*, and lying, self-centred chancers like Farage, Gove and Johnson. Who doesn't know that...? At least I now know your left-wing comparison baseline which is 1984. What a very ironic date as I'm sure you'll agree! The appalling Thatcher creature was in power with Labour, having moved on from Michael Foot and his duffel coat, were being led by Kinnochio who nobody could ever see as Prime Ministerial material for no other reason than he simply wasn't up to it. IMHO the real sea change in Labour's policies came about with the realisation that in modern Britain you have to take the political centre ground to get elected. Step forward Blair and Brown. The rest, as they say, is history... * Incidentally as far as the UK right wing MSM goes the Telegraph was front and centre in spouting the most appalling hairy sphericals about the EU at the behest of it's non-dom tax-dodging owners. And you think it's a source of "accurate and reasoned" reporting... Laughable! I didn’t claim the Telegraph was. Perhaps, rather than getting all excited, you might wish to read properly first. It’s the first step in understanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 On 7/28/2024 at 1:20 PM, joebean said: If you view The Guardian as being a source of accurate and reasoned reporting, I will claim the same of The Telegraph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anyone Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 I’m learning to speak Russian. Seems the sensible thing to do right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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