code99 Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 (edited) IMHO, there is no practical way popular figures like Michelle Obama or Oprah Winfrey could replace Joe Biden. The most logical choice is Kamala Harris. Unfortunately, the right-wing media has long cottoned on to this idea and have been systematically destroying her reputation since she was appointed Vice President. The outlook for the Democrats (and therefore most of the free democratic world) is currently very bleak. Any hopes that Trump’s second coming will be ‘managed’ are probably misplaced i.e. Trump (aka “America’s Hitler” as his new VP used to call him) and his ilk have no morals, no principles they will therefore change their ‘values’ and ‘goals’ whenever it suits them, etc. However, Trump’s backers have invested too much in his second term to let him off the hook and moderate his programmes for a right-wing revolution. Their plans will de-liberalise America and reverse all of the hard fought for social progress of the last sixty years. They will send shock-waves throughout the world e.g., great for Putin and Netanyahu, but dreadful consequences for Ukraine and Palestine. The traditional (any) UK Government’s policy of kissing American political asses will have to be seriously reconsidered; I am certain the EU leaders understand this too. Edited July 20 by code99 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoopsaa Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 18 hours ago, TheTeapot said: This is not a winning ticket. If it had been deSantis or anyone other than Trump Gavin Newsome might have gone for it. He's probably the Dems best hope, even though he's probably awful too. But Newsome is turning California into a basket case. Harris has been a bit of a disaster IMHO. Of course, in this televisual age, charisma is important, and Newsome scores on that. Re: Trump and his policies - I was listening to an interesting piece on that, apparently a lot of his policies get about 60% support from the general public - of course they do, he's a populist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 Harris wouldn't be any better than an incapacitated Biden. Oprah Winfrey, ffs. Might as well give Taylor Swift a shot at it. No more ridiculous than the two current candidates, and at least she loves everyone and donates to foodbanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
code99 Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 (edited) 7 hours ago, hoopsaa said: Re: Trump and his policies - I was listening to an interesting piece on that, apparently a lot of his policies get about 60% support from the general public - of course they do, he's a populist. To understand Trump’s base, one needs to go back to the Tea Party movement. Additionally, the popularity of the right-wing politics in general grew out of the financial devastation that white working-class voters suffered across numerous American towns when America’s industries opened up to Chinese competition. The right-wing politicians wrongly apportioned blame for this to the Democrats (a bit like the charlatans who sold Brexit to the British populace). Had they read the Das Kapital theory, as opposed to JD Vance’s memoires, they would have discovered that their predicament was a typical part of capitalism e.g., manufacturing facilities are moved to cheap locations, such as China, so that profits for the owners can increase (business owners who relocated their production hubs to China prospered and those businesses who were loyal to the USA went broke). What was needed to void this crisis was for politicians in all western countries to replace ‘old’ industries with new industries i.e. to regenerate and to rebuild these hollowed-out communities by facilitating new well-paid jobs that brought back dignity and wealth to individuals and families. In all fairness, some workers managed the transition to new economy such as cutting-edge technology, service industries, art, culture and sports, etc better than others - sadly, swathes of the American ‘rust belt’ were abandoned and a legacy of despair ensued. As often happens, since the beginning of the original discontent, political opportunists like Trump exploited this discontent and then snowballed it into a much more sinister and nastier form of political populism: batsh*t crazy religious zealots, gun-obsessed fanatics, climate-change deniers, environmental vandals, dodgy property developers, sellers of dodgy cryptocurrencies, white supremacists i.e. huge numbers of disparate chancers jumped onto Trump’s bandwagon of lies and promises. He said he was there to help America’s ‘losers’ to make America ‘great again’, but his main achievement was tax cuts for the superrich. He endorsed the doctrine that greed is good and migrants are bad. Anyone who believes that Trump cares about ordinary people and ‘ordinary communities’ is ignoring the fact that Trump is an autocrat who has no moral boundaries. One thing is clear – anyone who cares about America being a liberal democratic country should never vote for Trump. Edited July 20 by code99 typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoopsaa Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 2 hours ago, code99 said: To understand Trump’s base, one needs to go back to the Tea Party movement. Additionally, the popularity of the right-wing politics in general grew out of the financial devastation that white working-class voters suffered across numerous American towns when America’s industries opened up to Chinese competition. The right-wing politicians wrongly apportioned blame for this to the Democrats (a bit like the charlatans who sold Brexit to the British populace). Had they read the Das Kapital theory, as opposed to JD Vance’s memoires, they would have discovered that their predicament was a typical part of capitalism e.g., manufacturing facilities are moved to cheap locations, such as China, so that profits for the owners can increase (business owners who relocated their production hubs to China prospered and those businesses who were loyal to the USA went broke). What was needed to void this crisis was for politicians in all western countries to replace ‘old’ industries with new industries i.e. to regenerate and to rebuild these hollowed-out communities by facilitating new well-paid jobs that brought back dignity and wealth to individuals and families. In all fairness, some workers managed the transition to new economy such as cutting-edge technology, service industries, art, culture and sports, etc better than others - sadly, swathes of the American ‘rust belt’ were abandoned and a legacy of despair ensued. As often happens, since the beginning of the original discontent, political opportunists like Trump exploited this discontent and then snowballed it into a much more sinister and nastier form of political populism: batsh*t crazy religious zealots, gun-obsessed fanatics, climate-change deniers, environmental vandals, dodgy property developers, sellers of dodgy cryptocurrencies, white supremacists i.e. huge numbers of disparate chancers jumped onto Trump’s bandwagon of lies and promises. He said he was there to help America’s ‘losers’ to make America ‘great again’, but his main achievement was tax cuts for the superrich. He endorsed the doctrine that greed is good and migrants are bad. Anyone who believes that Trump cares about ordinary people and ‘ordinary communities’ is ignoring the fact that Trump is an autocrat who has no moral boundaries. One thing is clear – anyone who cares about America being a liberal democratic country should never vote for Trump. Ah yes, because Marxism, when its been tried, has been such a boon for the working classes, hasn't it? Which doesn't mean I like Trump, either. But I put the hammer and sickle on a par with the swastika. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joebean Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 Trump will win. Some of his policies will cause the world some discomfort but the world won’t come to an end and foreign dictatorships won’t flourish from it. The US will see a rise in prosperity and UK/US relations will be on standstill. Liberals will gnash their teeth and cry the end of everything but nothing much will change, here or anywhere else in the world. Get over it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 1 hour ago, joebean said: Trump will win. Some of his policies will cause the world some discomfort but the world won’t come to an end and foreign dictatorships won’t flourish from it. I think that Putin will benefit from a second Trump Presidency. It is fairly widely agreed that Trump would likely withdraw support for Ukraine and push them to give land to Russia to secure "peace". Other dictators won’t benefit directly but US Foreign Policy is likely to become much more isolationist. 1 hour ago, joebean said: The US will see a rise in prosperity and UK/US relations will be on standstill. US prosperity has increased much more under Biden than it did under Trump. 1 hour ago, joebean said: Liberals will gnash their teeth and cry the end of everything but nothing much will change, here or anywhere else in the world. Get over it. Trump will create uncertainty in the West. If the Republican Party also gets a majority in Congress then there will be no check on him. The US Courts have also just given the President the status of being above the law for official acts whilst on office. Expect Trump to push that ruling to the limits and be relatively unchecked by the politically appointed judges. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
code99 Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 (edited) 11 hours ago, hoopsaa said: Ah yes, because Marxism, when its been tried, has been such a boon for the working classes, hasn't it? Which doesn't mean I like Trump, either. But I put the hammer and sickle on a par with the swastika. It wasn’t Marxism that decimated the America’s industrial heartlands, it was Reaganomics and his belief in free markets, free trade and the dismantling of regulations that did this. Subsequently, new industries (e.g. the e-gambling in the IOM) throughout the entire developed Western World gave some employment opportunities back to people who had lost well-paying jobs in manufacturing, mining, etc but many of these new jobs were low-paid, insecure gig-economy jobs. If Trump can fix all that, good luck, but his promises to bring back coal mining are absurd immoral fantasies. Edited July 21 by code99 Better wording 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 11 hours ago, hoopsaa said: Ah yes, because Marxism, when its been tried, has been such a boon for the working classes, hasn't it? Which doesn't mean I like Trump, either. But I put the hammer and sickle on a par with the swastika. Where's Marxism been tried? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoopsaa Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 16 minutes ago, HeliX said: Where's Marxism been tried? In pure terms, nowhere. But we've had marxist-leninist Russia, and Marxist influenced socialism/communism through Africa, South America and Asia. The people like it so much, they get the fuck out. The shame for Africa was that after shedding colonial rule, many countries fell under Marxist influenced doctrines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 11 minutes ago, hoopsaa said: In pure terms, nowhere. But we've had marxist-leninist Russia, and Marxist influenced socialism/communism through Africa, South America and Asia. The people like it so much, they get the fuck out. The shame for Africa was that after shedding colonial rule, many countries fell under Marxist influenced doctrines. If we're including Marxism-Leninism then it certainly hasn't been the abject disaster you suggest - Cuba is Marxist-Leninist and their economic resilience in the face of outrageous US sanctions is nothing short of remarkable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoopsaa Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 20 minutes ago, HeliX said: If we're including Marxism-Leninism then it certainly hasn't been the abject disaster you suggest - Cuba is Marxist-Leninist and their economic resilience in the face of outrageous US sanctions is nothing short of remarkable. Human Rights Watch described castro's regime as 'highly repressive'. Remarkable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 5 minutes ago, hoopsaa said: Human Rights Watch described castro's regime as 'highly repressive'. Remarkable He left office 16 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 This is quite depressing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 5 minutes ago, HeliX said: This is quite depressing. You know what's even more depressing? It'll happen to you too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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