Hairy Poppins Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 7 minutes ago, Gladys said: It seems like a sensible idea to have a 'plan' and it was said to be a contingency. However, the communication was terrible and was handled so badly that even MR (or the NPM) made a side swipe at the issue of the press release late on Friday. Let's hope that there is proper consultation so that a contingency can be agreed with minimal impact on those who would be directly impacted. Other than already having a (very old) runway, why was Jurby chosen in the first place? Shouldn't DOI already be keeping an eye out for planning issues around the airfield perimeter? They're custodians of an airfield after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 Just now, Hairy Poppins said: Shouldn't DOI already be keeping an eye out for planning issues around the airfield perimeter? They're custodians of an airfield after all. Yes, but if the land isn't zoned for an airfield, or some other restriction, what grounds are there to object? Don't know planning inside out, but if an area is zoned for development, could you object because you had a distant intent to do something different even if, potentially, in the public interest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfc84 Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 Residents views were heard at public meeting into airfield Government has no plans to build an airport in Jurby. That was the message to the more than 100 people who attended a public meeting into the proposals for Jurby Airfield last night. Residents in Jurby asked questions about house values, future plans and why it was necessary to have the ‘safeguarding’ area zoned in the Draft North and West Area Plan. They were invited to ask questions to a panel of people which included area MHKs Alf Cannan and Tim Johnston, Isle of Man Government Chief Executive Andy Ralphs, Manx Wildlife Trust representative David Bellamy and Airports Director Gary Cobb. Local Democracy Reporter Emma Draper spoke to some residents after the meeting: A presentation was given by Mr Ralphs and Mr Cobb explaining their position. Mr Ralphs said 'lessons had been learnt' about the lack of public engagement and consultation over the map of the runway. He also said during the meeting that the government now 'recognises' that the matter was of both national importance and 'could have done better'. Mr Ralphs also maintained that 'due process' had been followed by the government throughout the planning period. Airport Director Gary Cobb was asked about why there had been so much land zoned for 'safeguarding', he said the application was for airspace and to ensure nothing would be built that could affect the proposed plans at Jurby Airfield. He also said there has been a safeguard around Jurby Airfield since 2004 for 1.5km and believed it would be 'prudent' to have a contingency space in case there was an emergency at Ronaldsway. Increasing the safeguard to 2km would make it the same as Ronaldsway, and allow bigger aircraft to land - he confirmed that only 20 to 30 percent of planes currently in use would be able to land at Jurby currently. Mr Cobb said at the meeting that the maps had been pulled out of the draft plan and were being moved to the Airports Masterplan, and the airfield will instead be considered under that document: Both Mr Cobb and Mr Ralphs reiterated numerous times that there are no plans to build an airport in Jurby. Ayre and Michael MHK Alf Cannan said he was sorry for the stress and anxiety caused by the plans, but still believed that the government had followed due process. Mr Cannan also said that if there was a proposal to have an airport in Jurby, he would think carefully before voting either way: https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/government-has-no-plans-to-build-airport-in-jurby/ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah 01 Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 Exactly as predicted a few weeks ago. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Buggane Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 One thing out of this I bet you Cobb was rubbing his hands and then weeping into them, Fuck me I get to build a airport. Oh no I don't. 🤑 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 3 hours ago, lfc84 said: Residents views were heard at public meeting into airfield Government has no plans to build an airport in Jurby. That was the message to the more than 100 people who attended a public meeting into the proposals for Jurby Airfield last night. Residents in Jurby asked questions about house values, future plans and why it was necessary to have the ‘safeguarding’ area zoned in the Draft North and West Area Plan. They were invited to ask questions to a panel of people which included area MHKs Alf Cannan and Tim Johnston, Isle of Man Government Chief Executive Andy Ralphs, Manx Wildlife Trust representative David Bellamy and Airports Director Gary Cobb. Local Democracy Reporter Emma Draper spoke to some residents after the meeting: A presentation was given by Mr Ralphs and Mr Cobb explaining their position. Mr Ralphs said 'lessons had been learnt' about the lack of public engagement and consultation over the map of the runway. He also said during the meeting that the government now 'recognises' that the matter was of both national importance and 'could have done better'. Mr Ralphs also maintained that 'due process' had been followed by the government throughout the planning period. Airport Director Gary Cobb was asked about why there had been so much land zoned for 'safeguarding', he said the application was for airspace and to ensure nothing would be built that could affect the proposed plans at Jurby Airfield. He also said there has been a safeguard around Jurby Airfield since 2004 for 1.5km and believed it would be 'prudent' to have a contingency space in case there was an emergency at Ronaldsway. Increasing the safeguard to 2km would make it the same as Ronaldsway, and allow bigger aircraft to land - he confirmed that only 20 to 30 percent of planes currently in use would be able to land at Jurby currently. Mr Cobb said at the meeting that the maps had been pulled out of the draft plan and were being moved to the Airports Masterplan, and the airfield will instead be considered under that document: Both Mr Cobb and Mr Ralphs reiterated numerous times that there are no plans to build an airport in Jurby. Ayre and Michael MHK Alf Cannan said he was sorry for the stress and anxiety caused by the plans, but still believed that the government had followed due process. Mr Cannan also said that if there was a proposal to have an airport in Jurby, he would think carefully before voting either way: https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/government-has-no-plans-to-build-airport-in-jurby/ 1 hour ago, Utah 01 said: Exactly as predicted a few weeks ago. 17 minutes ago, Dirty Buggane said: One thing out of this I bet you Cobb was rubbing his hands and then weeping into them, Fuck me I get to build a airport. Oh no I don't. 🤑 the irony is that nothing has changed. They extended airport height restriction zone and low fly areas are no longer in the draft plan, but have been moved into the Airport Plan ( where they’ve sat for more than 20 years unnoticed ). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmanxpilot Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 (edited) Totally agree with JW above. I was going to say the same myself - and as I’d already composed my post - I will 😊. So what has really changed? The notion that Jurby could be used as a replacement for Ronaldsway in the (albeit distant) future still exists. It may have been removed from the Northern Area Plan, but it still resides within Airport Master Plan, which is of course also an official IOMG document. Edited August 13 by madmanxpilot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
english zloty Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 10 minutes ago, madmanxpilot said: Totally agree with JW above. I was going to say the same myself - and as I’d already composed my post - I will 😊. So what has really changed? Lessons being learned. That's never happened before 😂😂 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 14 hours ago, Gladys said: The Airport Director and others from Government aren't. Downgraded to a Commissioners' meeting. What a mess of communication. Isn't it just. Especially when it turned out that Cobb was attending all along (as was the ridiculous IOMG CEO Andy Ralphs). It's quite clear that Emma Draper, the Local Democracy Reporter, was misinformed by the Cabinet Office that no one would be there and had to issue corrections later in the day. (The LDR's work can be used by all local media outlets so there similar corrections elsewhere). I suspect the Cabinet Office (CO) 'decided for' Cobb and he contacted Draper directly to say he was going anyway. Even when that piece was written "the Cabinet Office has not yet confirmed who will be attending on its behalf" and technically no one did come as Ralphs now has another CEO running CO for him. It's possible Cannan insisted he come along as a sort of human shield. 14 hours ago, Gladys said: It seems like a sensible idea to have a 'plan' and it was said to be a contingency. However, the communication was terrible and was handled so badly that even MR (or the NPM) made a side swipe at the issue of the press release late on Friday. Let's hope that there is proper consultation so that a contingency can be agreed with minimal impact on those who would be directly impacted. Other than already having a (very old) runway, why was Jurby chosen in the first place? And as discussed, the CO had had the memo from Cobb pointing out what the situation is for a week before but only informed the media about it late Friday. It's all so inept and arrogant that you'd think it a Cunning Plan to distract from something else, but I think that's just the way they are. As John says the situation is still completely unchanged, they've just moved a piece of paper from one folder to another. When it was drawn up and submitted to the Inquiry is another matter - the DoI claimed to know nothing about it to an FoI. The North and West Plan process seems to have been going on for ever, so it may have been sitting there for years. I presume there's a legal responsibility (with the CAA) to have an Airport Plan which lists what would happen in various catastrophic scenarios - including not having the Airport any more. As such Jurby is the obvious alternative place - it's flat, higher than Ronaldsway and government -owned. The driver was clearly showing that they were taking sea-level rise into account, it's obvious from the larger map shown here for example. 14 hours ago, Gladys said: Yes, but if the land isn't zoned for an airfield, or some other restriction, what grounds are there to object? Don't know planning inside out, but if an area is zoned for development, could you object because you had a distant intent to do something different even if, potentially, in the public interest? I think it would mean that the type of development might be restricted. Things like some sorts of industrial (eg warehouses) and leisure might be OK as they are easily displaced in an emergency. But housing and more substantial uses would not be. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Buggane Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 Would it not be funny building your retirement bungalow at the runway end then some one says I think we can get the An-225 Mriya vodka burner in there. With your large picture frame windows, sitting in your slippers it would be quite an exciting moment. 🤔 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weliveinhope Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 5 hours ago, lfc84 said: Residents views were heard at public meeting into airfield Government has no plans to build an airport in Jurby. That was the message to the more than 100 people who attended a public meeting into the proposals for Jurby Airfield last night. Residents in Jurby asked questions about house values, future plans and why it was necessary to have the ‘safeguarding’ area zoned in the Draft North and West Area Plan. They were invited to ask questions to a panel of people which included area MHKs Alf Cannan and Tim Johnston, Isle of Man Government Chief Executive Andy Ralphs, Manx Wildlife Trust representative David Bellamy and Airports Director Gary Cobb. Local Democracy Reporter Emma Draper spoke to some residents after the meeting: A presentation was given by Mr Ralphs and Mr Cobb explaining their position. Mr Ralphs said 'lessons had been learnt' about the lack of public engagement and consultation over the map of the runway. He also said during the meeting that the government now 'recognises' that the matter was of both national importance and 'could have done better'. Mr Ralphs also maintained that 'due process' had been followed by the government throughout the planning period. Airport Director Gary Cobb was asked about why there had been so much land zoned for 'safeguarding', he said the application was for airspace and to ensure nothing would be built that could affect the proposed plans at Jurby Airfield. He also said there has been a safeguard around Jurby Airfield since 2004 for 1.5km and believed it would be 'prudent' to have a contingency space in case there was an emergency at Ronaldsway. Increasing the safeguard to 2km would make it the same as Ronaldsway, and allow bigger aircraft to land - he confirmed that only 20 to 30 percent of planes currently in use would be able to land at Jurby currently. Mr Cobb said at the meeting that the maps had been pulled out of the draft plan and were being moved to the Airports Masterplan, and the airfield will instead be considered under that document: Both Mr Cobb and Mr Ralphs reiterated numerous times that there are no plans to build an airport in Jurby. Ayre and Michael MHK Alf Cannan said he was sorry for the stress and anxiety caused by the plans, but still believed that the government had followed due process. Mr Cannan also said that if there was a proposal to have an airport in Jurby, he would think carefully before voting either way: https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/government-has-no-plans-to-build-airport-in-jurby/ full house in government bullshit bingo in that report alone 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamon Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 What ... no mention of a plan for Remote ATC? 😁 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Poppins Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 On 7/27/2024 at 5:27 PM, Hairy Poppins said: It's nothing more than keeping the land available as a strategic reserve in case it's ever needed. Nothing more than that. That's logical as there's not really many other places on island you could ever build a functional airfield if you needed to. Sorry to disappoint. There we go then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 (edited) 1 hour ago, dreamon said: What ... no mention of a plan for Remote ATC? 😁 It's going to happen, eventually and probably due to the fact that we won't be able to recruit controllers either due to finance or because they'll be like hens teeth. On the other hand, I see an opportunity for IOM to be a hub controlling other air traffic remotely in the North and by having a full blown training centre (in Jurby?) and operational base. Edited August 13 by Andy Onchan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omobono Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 Only thing to come out of this saga is Alf and Tim Johnson don't have a clue whats going on in their own constituency make you wonder whet else is going on in government that they that they claim to know nothing about , obviously asleep at the wheel both of them , and the civil servants should be hauled over the coals for keeping them in the dark , what a shambles ! 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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