Southport Stabbings

[HeteroErectus]

7 minutes ago, HeliX said:

Decades of policies by Tory Governments:

"The left did this".

You'd have to be high to think that's accurate. 

[HeteroErectus]

9 minutes ago, RecklessAbandon said:

Well this thread has run it's use down as a discussion, and now devolving into the usual right wing nut jobs circle jerking each other.

 

 

The right wing nut jobs are usually too busy at work at this time of day.

[HeliX]

6 minutes ago, HeteroErectus said:

You'd have to be high to think that's accurate. 

Well let's test your theory that everything is moving left then, Labour must be a truly left wing Government if that's the case? Then we must be getting more nationalisation, vastly increased public spending, an end to austerity, an end to the two child benefit cap, tax reforms that more fairly tax wealth?

Or are we getting the opposite of all that?

[Chinahand]

Labour are attempting to do all of those things. They are nationalising train and power companies, raising public spending to end austerity (the issue is how to fund it as government bond markets are drying up/demanding higher interest rates). Taxes are going up, especially stealth taxes. 

The Tories greatly bloated the state with a huge expansion of government funding. Labour policies aren't going to reverse this. France style state regulation here we come. 

This argument is full of category errors. Issues of multiculturalism don't fit easily onto a traditional left right scale. 

[HeliX]

18 minutes ago, Chinahand said:

Labour are attempting to do all of those things. They are nationalising train and power companies, raising public spending to end austerity (the issue is how to fund it as government bond markets are drying up/demanding higher interest rates). Taxes are going up, especially stealth taxes. 

The Tories greatly bloated the state with a huge expansion of government funding. Labour policies aren't going to reverse this. France style state regulation here we come. 

This argument is full of category errors. Issues of multiculturalism don't fit easily onto a traditional left right scale. 

We must've listened to different chancellors speeches the other day!

[Chinahand]

Our society even in the 1970s was far more homogeneous than it is now. 

This is a large change. 

It has brought positives and negatives and these have not been spread uniformly through society. 

You don't need to hark to some utopia to acknowledge that. 

And it isn't racist to raise the negatives and to look to ways of solving them and mitigating them in the communities affected. 

[HeliX]

6 hours ago, Chinahand said:

And it isn't racist to raise the negatives and to look to ways of solving them and mitigating them in the communities affected. 

I don't think anyone is branding that racist. Unless the negative touted is "there's too many nonwhites"

[La Colombe]

Actually, I can't be arsed. 

Edited August 1 by La Colombe

[HeliX]

[Mr. Sausages]

shameful

[hoopsaa]

21 hours ago, HeliX said:

 

 

I specifically mentioned London, but yeah, that's really shit. And the thing I really dislike about it, over and above the racism,is the cowardice of the bloke doing it, with 100 people, or whatever, standing behind him.

 

[Chinahand]

52 minutes ago, HeliX said:

There's been approximately a 50% increase in murders between 1970 and now. That is a big increase. What point are you trying to make?

If you went further back into the 60s & 50d the increase would be even bigger. 

It is great crime has decreased since start of the millennium but it is still high and I understand has changed in character with increases in random & stranger attacks and a decrease in domestic and alcohol driven crimes as millennials drink less. 

[HeliX]

2 minutes ago, Chinahand said:

There's been approximately a 50% increase in murders between 1970 and now. That is a big increase. What point are you trying to make?

If you went further back into the 60s & 50d the increase would be even bigger. 

It is great crime has decreased since start of the millennium but it is still high and I understand has changed in character with increases in random & stranger attacks and a decrease in domestic and alcohol driven crimes as millennials drink less. 

I wasn't making a point, hence the lack of commentary. Just providing the statistics.

[woolley]

11 hours ago, manxman1980 said:

I would suggest a quick search of newspaper articles from the region would prove you wrong.  There were the Moors Murders and Trevor Hardy as a starting point.

The Arndale centre was bombed by the IRA which injured 212 people and fortunately no fatalities.  Largely thanks to the fact that the IRA had the "decency" to send warnings.  

Absolutely not. The existence of these cases was recognised early in the thread when @John Wright listed a number of notorious ones. That they were so notorious, and live long in the memory, only underlines the fact of their rarity. They also had sexual perversion in common, sadly a feature of humanity probably since man first walked the earth. A base animal urge in some individuals that will always be a factor.

The situation in the very late 20th and 21st century so far is completely different. It's an undeclared war in which innocents are seen as fair game for the furtherance of some spurious alien religious aim or revenge for some perceived wrong elsewhere in the world. Or, of course, the increasingly popular "mental problems".

Take a look at this list of atrocities. Note the long gaps in the chronology, and the fact that the Irish Republican movement was responsible for nearly all of them until the 1990s, generally against military or government targets, and mostly after warnings issued. Since then the pace quickens radically, and the vast majority of atrocities carried out, and also those thwarted, are connected to Islamist extremism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_Great_Britain

In addition to this, there is an epidemic of knife and gun crime, much of it among the young and connected to drugs and organised crime gangs the magnitude of which would be unthinkable 50 years ago. And children simply butchered in the park or in a club. A public place. I'm sorry, but you don't know what you're talking about.

[woolley]

12 hours ago, Gladys said:

No one is claiming it has always been the same. Insofar as tensions between various factions, which has always existed,  there has been a change in that those tensions are now revealing themselves in violence. How you can rationalise that as being a result of multi-culturalism rather than an increase in weaponised thuggery, is beyond me. 

Do you really think you could sit down with any of those rioters and have a rational discussion on why they behave the way they do, or to identify the true cause? I suspect as you continue to ask why, the reasoning will become more and more vague and based on a perception, if not 'because they are black/ muslim/immigrant. 

I'm sorry, Gladys, but yes they are. See my post above to @manxman1980 How is it not a result of multiculturalism if the atrocities are largely Islamist in nature?

I am quite sure that you could not sit down with the thugs that show up to these mayhem-fests and have a rational conversation about anything. The fact that they parade around chanting "stop the boats" is telling, seeing as it's only a drop in the ocean of the immigration total. Stop the boats was just a Tory slogan.