Southport Stabbings

[HeliX]

2 minutes ago, Fred the shred said:

But they aren’t some people they are coming in great numbers, who they are we know not, murderers, rapists, child molesters, perhaps, scroungers for sure , they are illegal and unwanted they are costing the British taxpayers fortunes and enough is enough.    The press have it that all the protesters are thugs and are printing photos of violence, violence is inexcusable in any context but there a lot of people out there who want their country back, they are too late for that but they don’t want it taken over totally , these demonstrations will not stop until something is done about illegal immigration.

The total number of illegal migrants in the UK is estimated to be less than 2 years of our current level of legal migration.

[Chinahand]

10 minutes ago, HeliX said:

... again the problem is politicians, not some people arriving on boats.

It's so complicated. Having 130,000 people arrive on the UK coastline and just expect to be housed and watered is a serious issue. It is.

Those numbers aren't decreasing, quite the opposite ... large scale organised crime is seeing it as a great money maker, and it is increasing.

 

[HeliX]

5 minutes ago, Chinahand said:

It's so complicated. Having 130,000 people arrive on the UK coastline and just expect to be housed and watered is a serious issue. It is.

Those numbers aren't decreasing, quite the opposite ... large scale organised crime is seeing it as a great money maker, and it is increasing.

 

It is, and I'm not intending to deny that, but it's blown out of proportion to mask other issues that are very much in the control of politicians.

[HeteroErectus]

25 minutes ago, HeliX said:

It is, and I'm not intending to deny that, but it's blown out of proportion to mask other issues that are very much in the control of politicians.

Tbh, it's those issues that are being protested. It's not that the right is racist, as it has been claimed in many spaces. These people on the right don't like there being such homelessness/poverty/food bank dependancy/lack of services etc, then having more people who need taxpayer funded assistance, pouring in on boats. If it were white polish people on boats, there would still be outrage. (Yes, perhaps not as strongly, read below)

This "we're stretching what little we have even further" concern is valid. 

It's obviously all amplified by many of the current generation of immigrants being Muslim. As a religion its followers make up 6% of the UK yet are (not collectively ofcourse) responsible for the most barbaric events in our countries modern history. Given the average age of the protestors, most will (I say this as an apparent millenial myself) have grown up witnessing Islamic terrorism grow steadily more frequent and severe. 9/11, 7/7, Madrid Train Bombings, Stephen Timms MP assassination attempt, Lee Rigbys murder, Charlie Hebdo, Westminster Bridge, Manchester Arena, the Bataclan, London Bridge '17, London Bridge '19, Streatham '20, Reading '20, assassination of David Amess, Liverpool women's hospital. But to recall only a few of many.

A concern about this religions most extreme members causing trouble (understatement), are valid too. You can say "he was actually welsh" but it doesn't matter. This has been simmering for a while. These people have seen barbarism swept under the carpet using "mental health issues" as an excuse. They've been told to sing "don't look back in anger" as they bury murdered children.

To say it's low IQ neanderthals being racist is ignorance. That cross eyed and always slightly confused women on BBC news asked: "do they even know why they are there??"

It's considered culturally acceptable to punch down on the right. I'll say it for the millionth time; that particular cultural trend will reverse. In my sons year of school, all the boys and many of the girls hold firmly right wing views. Often mocking the Liberal/"progressive" attitudes of the preceeding generations.

Those pictures I shared earlier were from the actual race riots, that occurred in 2020 after the murder of a baghead 6000 miles away. Google those protests and compare not only the carnage and destruction caused, but also the media's forgivable tone, even during the pandemics restrictions.

 

[HeliX]

12 minutes ago, HeteroErectus said:

Tbh, it's those issues that are being protested.

By... smashing up hotels that might have brown people in?

Quote

It's not that the right is racist, as it has been claimed in many spaces. These people on the right don't like there being such homelessness/poverty/food bank dependancy/lack of services etc, then having more people who need taxpayer funded assistance, pouring in on boats. If it were white polish people on boats, there would still be outrage. (Yes, perhaps not as strongly, read below)

Battering people for being a different colour is racist. Do you think they're stopping to ask if the person's family has been here for generations?

Quote

This "we're stretching what little we have even further" concern is valid. 

It's obviously all amplified by many of the current generation of immigrants being Muslim. As a religion its followers make up 6% of the UK yet are (not collectively ofcourse) responsible for the most barbaric events in our countries modern history. Given the average age of the protestors, most will (I say this as an apparent millenial myself) have grown up witnessing Islamic terrorism grow steadily more frequent and severe. 9/11, 7/7, Madrid Train Bombings, Stephen Timms MP assassination attempt, Lee Rigbys murder, Charlie Hebdo, Westminster Bridge, Manchester Arena, the Bataclan, London Bridge '17, London Bridge '19, Streatham '20, Reading '20, assassination of David Amess, Liverpool women's hospital. But to recall only a few of many.

A concern about this religions most extreme members causing trouble (understatement), are valid too. You can say "he was actually welsh" but it doesn't matter. This has been simmering for a while. These people have seen barbarism swept under the carpet using "mental health issues" as an excuse. They've been told to sing "don't look back in anger" as they bury murdered children.

You're blaming Islam for the Southport stabbing when the guy wasn't a Muslim? His parents are Christian ffs.

Quote

To say it's low IQ neanderthals being racist is ignorance. That cross eyed and always slightly confused women on BBC news asked: "do they even know why they are there??"

People who are out trashing buildings and setting shit on fire are low IQ neanderthals.

Quote

It's considered culturally acceptable to punch down on the right. I'll say it for the millionth time; that particular cultural trend will reverse. In my sons year of school, all the boys and many of the girls hold firmly right wing views. Often mocking the Liberal/"progressive" attitudes of the preceeding generations.

I was right wing as a kid and young adult too.

Quote

Those pictures I shared earlier were from the actual race riots, that occurred in 2020 after the murder of a baghead 6000 miles away. Google those protests and compare not only the carnage and destruction caused, but also the media's forgivable tone, even during the pandemics restrictions.

Are you suggesting what's happening right now isn't a race riot? Pull the other one.

[Ďouglas Peel]

23 minutes ago, HeteroErectus said:

Tbh, it's those issues that are being protested. It's not that the right is racist, as it has been claimed in many spaces. These people on the right don't like there being such homelessness/poverty/food bank dependancy/lack of services etc, then having more people who need taxpayer funded assistance, pouring in on boats. If it were white polish people on boats, there would still be outrage. (Yes, perhaps not as strongly, read below)

This "we're stretching what little we have even further" concern is valid. 

It's obviously all amplified by many of the current generation of immigrants being Muslim. As a religion its followers make up 6% of the UK yet are (not collectively ofcourse) responsible for the most barbaric events in our countries modern history. Given the average age of the protestors, most will (I say this as an apparent millenial myself) have grown up witnessing Islamic terrorism grow steadily more frequent and severe. 9/11, 7/7, Madrid Train Bombings, Stephen Timms MP assassination attempt, Lee Rigbys murder, Charlie Hebdo, Westminster Bridge, Manchester Arena, the Bataclan, London Bridge '17, London Bridge '19, Streatham '20, Reading '20, assassination of David Amess, Liverpool women's hospital. But to recall only a few of many.

A concern about this religions most extreme members causing trouble (understatement), are valid too. You can say "he was actually welsh" but it doesn't matter. This has been simmering for a while. These people have seen barbarism swept under the carpet using "mental health issues" as an excuse. They've been told to sing "don't look back in anger" as they bury murdered children.

To say it's low IQ neanderthals being racist is ignorance. That cross eyed and always slightly confused women on BBC news asked: "do they even know why they are there??"

It's considered culturally acceptable to punch down on the right. I'll say it for the millionth time; that particular cultural trend will reverse. In my sons year of school, all the boys and many of the girls hold firmly right wing views. Often mocking the Liberal/"progressive" attitudes of the preceeding generations.

Those pictures I shared earlier were from the actual race riots, that occurred in 2020 after the murder of a baghead 6000 miles away. Google those protests and compare not only the carnage and destruction caused, but also the media's forgivable tone, even during the pandemics restrictions.

 

46 ,000 plus terror attacks worldwide since 9/11  .isnt a good record.

[hoopsaa]

9 hours ago, HeliX said:

The total number of illegal migrants in the UK is estimated to be less than 2 years of our current level of legal migration.

Over the last 2 years, according to government statistics, gross migration to the UK was 2.4 million people.

If we're talking about cultural change, I reckon it's the gross figures we need to talk about, housing and its the net figures. Economically it's more complicated, apparently more millionaires left the UK last year, then any other country, and entrepreneurs are being seduced by the flirting of Portugal and Milan, among others.

Immigration and multiculturalism are great when they are managed, a boon to both migrant and country (although there's the question of skilled labour leaving a poor country that has paid to train the people leaving).

But, allowing millions of basically unvetted people in has been a disaster, even if done with the best intentions. .and I have my doubts about that, as it seems partly a patch to keep up our GDP (not per head). 

There's nice things, and there's things that work, and unfortunately they are not always the same.

But somehow, from this new low, we need to make it work and build a more cohesive society. I believe we have to get immigration levels way down and put an end to identitarianism, which seems to have divided us far more then the racists have managed.

Edited August 5 by hoopsaa

[Gladys]

1 hour ago, hoopsaa said:

Over the last 2 years, according to government statistics, gross migration to the UK was 2.4 million people.

If we're talking about cultural change, I reckon it's the gross figures we need to talk about, housing and its the net figures. Economically it's more complicated, apparently more millionaires left the UK last year, then any other country, and entrepreneurs are being seduced by the flirting of Portugal and Milan, among others.

Immigration and multiculturalism are great when they are managed, a boon to both migrant and country (although there's the question of skilled labour leaving a poor country that has paid to train the people leaving).

But, allowing millions of basically unvetted people in has been a disaster, even if done with the best intentions. .and I have my doubts about that, as it seems partly a patch to keep up our GDP (not per head). 

There's nice things, and there's things that work, and unfortunately they are not always the same.

But somehow, from this new low, we need to make it work and build a more cohesive society. I believe we have to get immigration levels way down and put an end to identitarianism, which seems to have divided us far more then the racists have managed.

Define 'identitarianism'. 

[quilp]

47 minutes ago, Gladys said:

Define 'identitarianism'. 

https://www.populismstudies.org/Vocabulary/identitarians/

 

[Non-Believer]

9 hours ago, Ďouglas Peel said:

46 ,000 plus terror attacks worldwide since 9/11  .isnt a good record.

75% of MI5's current caseload is monitoring and countering Islamic terror threats to the UK. As we know, MI5 are not always successful either. This is what people also justifiably fear, from experience.

[hoopsaa]

1 hour ago, Gladys said:

Define 'identitarianism'. 

OK, not the best term to use in hindsight, identity politics would have been a better way of putting it. Wiki it, I'm at work!!

[RecklessAbandon]

13 hours ago, Fred the shred said:

Immigration is not just about money,  deep resentment is being felt when people see immigrants put up in hotels and there are homeless people on the streets.   The people who were demonstrating, and not all of them were throwing bricks were shouting stop the boats they can see their town being taken over by people with different cultures.   It is complicated it has been a big bone of contention ever since Liar Blair let untold numbers of immigrants in because he wanted their vote.

Strange, I don't see the EDL and Tommy Ten names holding can drives and raffles to raise money for the homeless.

The only fund raising they do is to cover legal costs.

Quote

...ever since Liar Blair let untold numbers of immigrants in because he wanted their vote.

How does an immigrant vote?

[HeteroErectus]

10 hours ago, HeliX said:

By... smashing up hotels that might have brown people in?

Again. If they were white Eastern Europeans being housed in these hotels, this could have happened. The colour of their skin is irrelevant.

11 hours ago, HeliX said:

You're blaming Islam for the Southport stabbing when the guy wasn't a Muslim? His parents are Christian ffs.

Read it again. That's the opposite of what I said. They are the protesting the people living in a country they hate, and the resulting levels of terrorism being committed.

11 hours ago, HeliX said:

People who are out trashing buildings and setting shit on fire are low IQ neanderthals

Emotional people rather than low IQ.

11 hours ago, HeliX said:

Are you suggesting what's happening right now isn't a race riot? Pull the other one.

Yes I am. 

Race is a very minimal component of this. Especially compared to the race riots of 2020. In which ALL white people were labelled as evil to varying degrees.

I'm sure you have an anecdote that shows otherwise though. Maybe the guy walking around with Nazi tattoos, or a brown man being beaten up.

How many WHITE people have been killed and injured by Muslim terrorists over the years? Alarmingly, the vast majority of attacks are prevented. Which glosses over the fact that the terrorism is not just born from a few isolated and disturbed individuals, as it is currently reported, but rather from a guerilla army operating in our country.

[HeliX]

1 minute ago, HeteroErectus said:

Again. If they were white Eastern Europeans being housed in these hotels, this could have happened. The colour of their skin is irrelevant.

Is it though? A large proportion of our immigration is from white countries, and yet the violence is only against non-white people?

Quote

Read it again. That's the opposite of what I said. They are the protesting the people living in a country they hate, and the resulting levels of terrorism being committed.

You said...

"A concern about this religions most extreme members causing trouble (understatement), are valid too. You can say "he was actually welsh" but it doesn't matter. This has been simmering for a while. These people have seen barbarism swept under the carpet using "mental health issues" as an excuse. They've been told to sing "don't look back in anger" as they bury murdered children. "

What's "this religion" if the guy is a Welsh Christian?

Quote

Emotional people rather than low IQ.

Plenty of people manage to be emotional and not burn down libraries.

Quote

Yes I am. 

Race is a very minimal component of this. Especially compared to the race riots of 2020. In which ALL white people were labelled as evil to varying degrees.

I'm sure you have an anecdote that shows otherwise though. Maybe the guy walking around with Nazi tattoos, or a brown man being beaten up.

No, all white people were not labelled as evil to varying degrees. That is a considerable misunderstanding of the meaning of white privilege.

Quote

How many WHITE people have been killed and injured by Muslim terrorists over the years? Alarmingly, the vast majority of attacks are prevented. Which glosses over the fact that the terrorism is not just born from a few isolated and disturbed individuals, as it is currently reported, but rather from a guerilla army operating in our country.

No idea, but I bet it's orders of magnitude fewer than the number of WHITE (capitalisation yours) people who have been saved by Muslim doctors and nurses.

[HeteroErectus]

13 minutes ago, RecklessAbandon said:

Strange, I don't see the EDL and Tommy Ten names holding can drives and raffles to raise money for the homeless.

The only fund raising they do is to cover legal costs.

As @HeliX said above, just as I thought we may all be approaching something close to an agreement/understanding: 

13 hours ago, HeliX said:

It is, and I'm not intending to deny that, but it's blown out of proportion to mask other issues that are very much in the control of politicians.

These people are primarily angry at the ruling elite class.

The suggestion that these protestors are stupid or misled by bad actors, is itself misinformation perpetuated by those in power to delegitimise the protestors valid arguments.