HeliX Posted August 5 Share Posted August 5 1 minute ago, HeteroErectus said: The suggestion that these protestors are stupid or misled by bad actors, is itself misinformation perpetuated by those in power to delegitimise the protestors valid arguments. I think the problem here is that when you say "these protestors" you may well be primarily thinking about the people marching, and when some others (myself included) say "these protestors" we mean the ones blocking the exits to a hotel and then lighting it on fire. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RecklessAbandon Posted August 5 Share Posted August 5 1 minute ago, HeteroErectus said: As @HeliX said above, just as I thought we may all be approaching something close to an agreement/understanding: These people are primarily angry at the ruling elite class. The suggestion that these protestors are stupid or misled by bad actors, is itself misinformation perpetuated by those in power to delegitimise the protestors valid arguments. They do not have valid arguments, they have been convinced (by the same "elites" - Tice/Farage/etc) of these arguments. Farage, a 'white person on the street' and an immigrant are sat at a table with three cookies. Farage takes two and tells the 'white person on the street' - "I tell you what, you've got some legitimate concerns about that immigrant taking your cookie". And then Farage is shocked when the 'white person on the street' burns down a Greggs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeteroErectus Posted August 5 Share Posted August 5 59 minutes ago, RecklessAbandon said: They do not have valid arguments, they have been convinced (by the same "elites" - Tice/Farage/etc) of these arguments. Farage, a 'white person on the street' and an immigrant are sat at a table with three cookies. Farage takes two and tells the 'white person on the street' - "I tell you what, you've got some legitimate concerns about that immigrant taking your cookie". And then Farage is shocked when the 'white person on the street' burns down a Greggs. No they haven't. Their frustrations came first. They find these leaders as a way to represent how they feel. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted August 5 Share Posted August 5 (edited) At a loss to understand how setting alight a hotel housing immigrants can be justified/explained. Those people did not make the rules that put them in the hotel. Parliament did, go try burning down the Houses of Parliament and see how insipid the police reaction would be. How can you explain this as anything other than a lynch mob of thugs? Edited August 5 by Gladys 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted August 5 Share Posted August 5 1 hour ago, HeliX said: I think the problem here is that when you say "these protestors" you may well be primarily thinking about the people marching, and when some others (myself included) say "these protestors" we mean the ones blocking the exits to a hotel and then lighting it on fire. No, they are rioters and so breaking the law. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RecklessAbandon Posted August 5 Share Posted August 5 31 minutes ago, HeteroErectus said: No they haven't. Their frustrations came first. They find these leaders as a way to represent how they feel. Oh I forgot that right wing demagogues only came into existence recently and haven't been poking the bear hoping for a reaction for decades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted August 5 Share Posted August 5 Grooming gangs indeed... Source data: https://www.csacentre.org.uk/research-resources/research-evidence/scale-nature-of-abuse/trends-in-official-data/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeteroErectus Posted August 5 Share Posted August 5 12 minutes ago, HeliX said: Grooming gangs indeed... Source data: https://www.csacentre.org.uk/research-resources/research-evidence/scale-nature-of-abuse/trends-in-official-data/ We were talking about Terrorism Helix. Pull the same data format for terrorism (and mass stabbings not classified as terrorism, due to "mental health issues") Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted August 5 Share Posted August 5 1 minute ago, HeteroErectus said: We were talking about Terrorism Helix. Pull the same data format for terrorism (and mass stabbings not classified as terrorism, due to "mental health issues") I don't have them. Several people have mentioned grooming gangs in this thread, you didn't object when anyone else did it! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RecklessAbandon Posted August 5 Share Posted August 5 1 minute ago, HeteroErectus said: We were talking about Terrorism Helix. Pull the same data format for terrorism (and mass stabbings not classified as terrorism, due to "mental health issues") Really? The only terrorism I can see in relation to the Southport stabbing is the ongoing race riots perpetrated by white nationalists, racists, xenophobes and hooligans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeteroErectus Posted August 5 Share Posted August 5 23 minutes ago, RecklessAbandon said: Oh I forgot that right wing demagogues only came into existence recently and haven't been poking the bear hoping for a reaction for decades. They may have existed. However many of these people are apolitical until things they see with their own eyes make them feel a certain way. Then they seek answers and comfort. "that guy is able to put into words what I'm feeling" = "well said Nigel" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RecklessAbandon Posted August 5 Share Posted August 5 (edited) 3 minutes ago, HeteroErectus said: They may have existed. However many of these people are apolitical until things they see with their own eyes make them feel a certain way. Then they seek answers and comfort. "that guy is able to put into words what I'm feeling" = "well said Nigel" You'll beg my pardon, but that is unmitigated horse shit. Do you think the chap walking around with Swastikas tattooed all over his body (which he was comfortable walking around for all to see) was apolitical? What about the EDL? BNP? Britain First? Are they just groups of well meaning people who are just "concerned"? Edited August 5 by RecklessAbandon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted August 5 Share Posted August 5 1 minute ago, HeteroErectus said: They may have existed. However many of these people are apolitical until things they see with their own eyes make them feel a certain way. Then they seek answers and comfort. "that guy is able to put into words what I'm feeling" = "well said Nigel" Or, something is said that resonates with an inate bigotry. Or, something is said which provides an identifiable cause for the injustice they are feeling, not necessarily the actual cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeteroErectus Posted August 5 Share Posted August 5 2 minutes ago, RecklessAbandon said: Really? The only terrorism I can see in relation to the Southport stabbing is the ongoing race riots perpetrated by white nationalists, racists, xenophobes and hooligans. The stabbings were terrorism. What did those 3 little girls and the many injured do to that 17 year old? They were at a dance class. Honestly. The difference in your comments for the mutilated children of Palestine and the mutilated children of the UK is mind blowing. I do want to remind you and HeliX, I agreed with you both more than anyone on that topic. "Stop killing kids" shouldn't be a controversial thing to say. Being pissed off at the people that have repeatedly done and enabled these acts upon our children (whether Palestinian or British) is absolutely acceptable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted August 5 Share Posted August 5 1 minute ago, HeteroErectus said: The stabbings were terrorism. What did those 3 little girls and the many injured do to that 17 year old? They were at a dance class. Honestly. The difference in your comments for the mutilated children of Palestine and the mutilated children of the UK is mind blowing. I do want to remind you and HeliX, I agreed with you both more than anyone on that topic. "Stop killing kids" shouldn't be a controversial thing to say. Being pissed off at the people that have repeatedly done and enabled these acts upon our children (whether Palestinian or British) is absolutely acceptable. Terrifying, yes, terrorism, no. Did the people in the Holiday Inn in Rotherham repeatedly do and enable those acts on the children in Southport? This is the problem with extremism, it exacts revenge against a certain type of person rather than the actual perpetrators. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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