Southport Stabbings

[John Wright]

5 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

underlying causes are always going to be there.

And they are poverty, poor educational achievement, low social class, being disadvantaged, being excluded or marginalised, being manipulated by politicians or clerics, or rulers, to fear someone else also on the margins, probably even more so, for the benefit of a ruling elite.

Those are the causes, not colour of skin, language, religion, sexuality, gender, gender identity, 

[HeliX]

4 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

Ok, the problem doesn't exist then and there's racial and religious harmony throughout the world. No problem.

The UK does, in fact, have a lot of racial and religious harmony. Much as the likes of the Mail, Farage et al try to avoid that.

[RecklessAbandon]

2 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

Ok, the problem doesn't exist then and there's racial and religious harmony throughout the world. No problem.

There is a problem, which has been pointed out to you multiple times already.

A pool of readily angry and ignorant people, with misplaced nationalist views fed to them by right wing demagogues and media, easily dupped by misinformation spread by malicious sources and ultimately looking for scrap to fill their otherwise empty lives under the guise of "takin are cuntry bakk!!!".

It is football hooliganism but they have swapped the terraces (which are now heavily policed because of the gangs) for "political" battle colours.

[John Wright]

3 minutes ago, RecklessAbandon said:

misplaced nationalist views fed to them by right wing demagogues and media

It can just as easily be left wing demagogues and media

[RecklessAbandon]

2 minutes ago, John Wright said:

It can just as easily be left wing demagogues and media

When was the last time you saw a "left wing" group attacking police after a stabbing vigil because a left wing media source gave out the name of a fake person?

[Non-Believer]

10 minutes ago, John Wright said:

And they are poverty, poor educational achievement, low social class, being disadvantaged, being excluded or marginalised, being manipulated by politicians or clerics, or rulers, to fear someone else also on the margins, probably even more so, for the benefit of a ruling elite.

Those are the causes, not colour of skin, language, religion, sexuality, gender, gender identity, 

You've just contradicted yourself there John in saying there's manipulation by clerics but then that religion is not a factor.

Religion is a massive factor, especially when it preaches modern day intolerance and has an inbred doctrine of expansion with that intolerance.

[John Wright]

1 minute ago, RecklessAbandon said:

When was the last time you saw a "left wing" group attacking police after a stabbing vigil because a left wing media source gave out the name of a fake person?

In the UK, no. And your example is very specific to 2024 UK and Southport. But other countries, other politics, other times.

 

[RecklessAbandon]

Just now, Non-Believer said:

You've just contradicted yourself there John in saying there's manipulation by clerics but then that religion is not a factor.

Religion is a massive factor, especially when it preaches modern day intolerance and has an inbred doctrine of expansion with that intolerance.

And yet it was racist yobs that rioted and wrecked up Southport, and the local Muslim community joined with the wider community to help recover.

[John Wright]

3 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

You've just contradicted yourself there John in saying there's manipulation by clerics but then that religion is not a factor.

No contradiction.

Manipulation by clerics as a power group is common place. But it’s their politics, not the religious belief of the adherents..indeed in your second paragraph you recognise that. It’s the leaders, not the little people.

 

[Non-Believer]

2 minutes ago, John Wright said:

No contradiction.

Manipulation by clerics as a power group is common place. But it’s their politics, not the religious belief of the adherents..indeed in your second paragraph you recognise that. It’s the leaders, not the little people.

 

Yes, but their politics prey upon the religious beliefs of those "little people". Those politics espouse and encourage religious intolerance and become interwoven. That then becomes a religious problem, particularly if it is in an environment where that religion is not native because it is perceived, rightly or wrongly, as a threat by the indigenous culture and religion. We saw the extreme version of that in Southport.

[RecklessAbandon]

Just now, Non-Believer said:

Yes, but their politics prey upon the religious beliefs of those "little people". Those politics espouse and encourage religious intolerance and become interwoven. That then becomes a religious problem, particularly if it is in an environment where that religion is not native because it is perceived, rightly or wrongly, as a threat by the indigenous culture and religion. We saw the extreme version of that in Southport.

How is a riot caused by intolerant racist ignorant yobs the fault of anyone but the right wing?  You keep using words like "native" and "indigenous", I don't remember seeing much Pagan symbology or chanting going on.

Or are you talking about the imported Christianity?

[Non-Believer]

11 minutes ago, RecklessAbandon said:

How is a riot caused by intolerant racist ignorant yobs the fault of anyone but the right wing?  You keep using words like "native" and "indigenous", I don't remember seeing much Pagan symbology or chanting going on.

Or are you talking about the imported Christianity?

Christianity has been the religion of the British Isles for a thousand years or more. To speak of it as imported in this context is irrelevant.

Those intolerant, racist, ignorant yobs had to be given a reason, a fuel to ignite their actions.

That fuel is the perception that an "invasive" religious culture was behind the butchering of 3 innocent kids. It may or may not have been the case, the facts have yet to emerge. One thing is for sure though, that perception is strengthened by said culture having plenty of previous form in such conduct. This is where the anger and the fears lie.

[John Wright]

1 minute ago, Non-Believer said:

Christianity has been the religion of the British Isles for a thousand years or more. To speak of it as imported in this context is irrelevant.

Those intolerant, racist, ignorant yobs had to be given a reason, a fuel to ignite their actions.

That fuel is the perception that an "invasive" religious culture was behind the butchering of 3 innocent kids. It may or may not have been the case, the facts have yet to emerge. One thing is for sure though, that perception is strengthened by said culture having plenty of previous form in such conduct. This is where the anger and the fears lie.

But the infighting between Protestant and Catholic strands of English/British Christianity is still active after over 600 years. Tribal loyalties played out in football, politics, and, still, in armed conflict. It’s killed more Brits in the last 60 years than Muslim Christian conflict in the same period.

We are quite lucky in the IoM, I know. But you know the first Catholic advocates were only 1954, police in 1965. It’s all about education, levelling up, and not allowing those with hands on the levers of power to manipulate one against the other for their advantage, political, religious, economic, or whatever.

Our current big issues is that social media has given added levers of power to some very unsavoury individuals.

[Gladys]

1 hour ago, HeliX said:

 

 

That is how a proper community should react to a tragedy, not take to the streets to riot (however you define a community, even one of racist thugs). 

Do those thugs really think their response is appropriate, or even with any regard to the victims, in these circumstances?  Obviously they do, sadly.

As for the video of the man getting hit from his own side, not funny, but raw justice!

 

[John Wright]

3 minutes ago, Gladys said:

Do those thugs … think…?

That’s the real question