Southport Stabbings

[Shake me up Judy]

I didn't. Manxman1980 did. 

[Mr. Sausages]

Alternative fact in play there.

[Albert Tatlock]

44 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

Other than Taylor Swift fans being involved the two are completely unrelated.

Terrorists copy other terrorists.

[manxman1980]

45 minutes ago, Shake me up Judy said:

How do you know ?

Because the awful events in Southport don't appear to be terror related. 

The foiled plan you referred to  is clearly terror related and, guided by intelligence reports, they were prevented. 

What I expect you are trying to do is either link both events with immigration, despite the fact that the killer in Southport was born in the UK, or link the two with Islam.

14 minutes ago, Albert Tatlock said:

Terrorists copy other terrorists.

Based on what I have read the planned attack at the Taylor Swift concerts involved explosive devices.

That is hardly copying the events in Southport. 

You could point to the attack on the MEN Arena and arguably you may have a point there. 

[TheTeapot]

Worth re-reading the opening post of this thread. 

[Albert Tatlock]

25 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

That is hardly copying the events in Southport. 

You could point to the attack on the MEN Arena and arguably you may have a point there. 

It was a generic response, not related to Southport.

But they do tend to copy each other in patterns of events.

[manxman1980]

Just now, Albert Tatlock said:

It was a generic response, not related to Southport.

But they do tend to copy each other in patterns of events.

So, why post it here if it was a generic response?  The attack in Southport doesn't appear to be a terrorist attack. 

It looks more like someone acting alone.  I am tempted to say probably an incel but that is purely me speculating.

If you want to discuss the planned attack in Vienna then start a separate thread.

[Chinahand]

2 hours ago, manxman1980 said:

The attack in Southport doesn't appear to be a terrorist attack.

I do wonder how politicised that is. If it isn't madness what other motive can their be other than terrorism?

If it is madness ... oh I don't know. It's quite a string of probabilities to get someone having a psychotic episode travel miles to get into a 7 year old's dance party carrying a kitchen knife, rather than stabbing a family member in their kitchen or believing the postman is a demon on the pavement outside.

This is where politics and the truth can get blurred. What ideologies did this young man have? Did psychosis twist them? I worry we will never be told.

 

[hoopsaa]

6 hours ago, Chinahand said:

I do wonder how politicised that is. If it isn't madness what other motive can their be other than terrorism?

If it is madness ... oh I don't know. It's quite a string of probabilities to get someone having a psychotic episode travel miles to get into a 7 year old's dance party carrying a kitchen knife, rather than stabbing a family member in their kitchen or believing the postman is a demon on the pavement outside.

This is where politics and the truth can get blurred. What ideologies did this young man have? Did psychosis twist them? I worry we will never be told.

 

Norway defines the man who went onto that island and slaughtered those poor kids as insane, as, in their view, you'd have to be to commit such a crime. So what level of carnage do you have to commit to be insane, not a terrorist?

We section people who are thought to be a threat - rightly, mostly - but by what parameters do we define sanity?

And if terrorism equates to insanity, can we lock up all those on the terror watch list and heavily sedate them?

It's hypothetical to me, I'm a do the crime, do the time kind of person, but I suppose it's the outcome, not motivation,  that concentrates my thinking.

We all know, although probably don't talk about enough, the problems first cousin marriage causes. There is a theory that people born from it can be more prone to fanaticism, I suppose low iq makes people more susceptible to grooming and manipulation. I wonder if research has been done to see if there's correlation between Muslim attacks in the uk and first cousin marriage?

I'm deliberately not mentioning the Foxdale Liberation Front, by the way.

[Albert Tatlock]

9 hours ago, manxman1980 said:

So, why post it here if it was a generic response?  The attack in Southport doesn't appear to be a terrorist attack. 

It looks more like someone acting alone.  I am tempted to say probably an incel but that is purely me speculating.

If you want to discuss the planned attack in Vienna then start a separate thread.

Err...you brought it up in this thread.

[manxman1980]

7 hours ago, Chinahand said:

I do wonder how politicised that is. If it isn't madness what other motive can their be other than terrorism?

If it is madness ... oh I don't know. It's quite a string of probabilities to get someone having a psychotic episode travel miles to get into a 7 year old's dance party carrying a kitchen knife, rather than stabbing a family member in their kitchen or believing the postman is a demon on the pavement outside.

This is where politics and the truth can get blurred. What ideologies did this young man have? Did psychosis twist them? I worry we will never be told.

I am sure there is something behind the attack.  What I was trying to point out is that the Police don't seem to be treating it as a terrorist attack.  There were reports in the days that followed talking about whether it would be referred to specialist Police who deal with terrorism but it doesn't seem to have been.  That is where I get to based on the actions the Police have taken.

I am just trying to ensure we don't end back where we started and people post up more false news about the case.  There has been way to much false news around this already.

[manxman1980]

1 minute ago, Albert Tatlock said:

Err...you brought it up in this thread.

No, I responded to a post by @Shake me up Judy.  I suggest you go and check.

[Albert Tatlock]

Just now, manxman1980 said:

No, I responded to a post by @Shake me up Judy.  I suggest you go and check.

Yes...but the response was required to your post in this thread.

[asitis]

55 minutes ago, hoopsaa said:

Norway defines the man who went onto that island and slaughtered those poor kids as insane, as, in their view, you'd have to be to commit such a crime. So what level of carnage do you have to commit to be insane, not a terrorist?

We section people who are thought to be a threat - rightly, mostly - but by what parameters do we define sanity?

And if terrorism equates to insanity, can we lock up all those on the terror watch list and heavily sedate them?

It's hypothetical to me, I'm a do the crime, do the time kind of person, but I suppose it's the outcome, not motivation,  that concentrates my thinking.

We all know, although probably don't talk about enough, the problems first cousin marriage causes. There is a theory that people born from it can be more prone to fanaticism, I suppose low iq makes people more susceptible to grooming and manipulation. I wonder if research has been done to see if there's correlation between Muslim attacks in the uk and first cousin marriage?

I'm deliberately not mentioning the Foxdale Liberation Front, by the way.

I do wonder if the young man who committed the terrible crimes in Southport had been radicalised in some way. Personally I find it difficult to believe that a psychosis of whatever type, would instruct a mentally ill person to get a taxi and go to a little known location, where there happened to be a young girls dance class. To me it would be more believable if it were his old school if he were bullied or that sort of deep seated motivation.

I suspect as another poster has said the real truth will never come out. Sad times for the UK.

 

[Gladys]

7 hours ago, Chinahand said:

I do wonder how politicised that is. If it isn't madness what other motive can their be other than terrorism?

If it is madness ... oh I don't know. It's quite a string of probabilities to get someone having a psychotic episode travel miles to get into a 7 year old's dance party carrying a kitchen knife, rather than stabbing a family member in their kitchen or believing the postman is a demon on the pavement outside.

This is where politics and the truth can get blurred. What ideologies did this young man have? Did psychosis twist them? I worry we will never be told.

 

I think we have to be careful that we don't blur everyday meanings of words (and our emotional reaction to these events) with the strict legal definition of the crimes that have been committed. 

Terrorism is one of those terms.  Yes, the man who stabbed the little girls did terrorise them and others, but was it terrorism as defined in law?  Yes, we could probably conclude that he was mad, but was it insanity in the legal sense?

As you say, we probably will never know the motivation for those horrendous acts, although there will be many psychologists who will analyse and explain the possible motivations.  

We can still conclude, however, that it was evil beyond belief in the everyday sense of the term.