Chinahand Posted July 31 Share Posted July 31 Three young girls have died. Cruelly murdered. Why? We do not know, it is unlikely any comprehendible explanation will ever be given. That is a sobering tragedy. The reaction of some members of our society has been to blame without evidence the religion of a minority group and to attack their place of worship and the police attempting to protect it. That is a terrible reflection on our society. Deep polarisation is clearly on display in trying to understand the changes in our society and how it has influenced all these events. Dialogue often breaks down into ridicule, incomprehension, and often personal insults. Not good. Those poor little girls. Our angry and divided society. Much to ponder on. I don't think finding common ground will be easy. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sausages Posted July 31 Share Posted July 31 Riots in London now. “Stop the boats”. More than 100 arrests in London protest after Southport attack https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4ng1254ndeo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoopsaa Posted July 31 Share Posted July 31 2 minutes ago, Mr. Sausages said: Riots in London now. “Stop the boats”. More than 100 arrests in London protest after Southport attack https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4ng1254ndeo The majority of the arrests seem to have been for failing to comply with the 90 minutes protesting time they were given. Understandable why this was put in place given the short notice, but also understandable why people resent this given the on-going 'from the river to the sea' demos. Seen reports from black and Asian people attending tonight's protest as well. But far right, init? say the sneering left. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted July 31 Share Posted July 31 5 minutes ago, hoopsaa said: Seen reports from black and Asian people attending tonight's protest as well. But far right, init? say the sneering left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeteroErectus Posted July 31 Share Posted July 31 2 minutes ago, hoopsaa said: Seen reports from black and Asian people attending tonight's protest as well. But far right, init? say the sneering left. Always great sport to see to minorities who are right leaning, get called white supremacists and racists... 😵💫 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeteroErectus Posted July 31 Share Posted July 31 1 minute ago, HeliX said: As an above comment from another poster; perhaps the modern liberal vision of multiculturalism, just isn't viable. Different groups either segregate/isolate themselves or clash when they are pushed together. I'd be curious to see what the modern Liberal mind has to say on the new cultures views: https://edition.cnn.com/2016/04/11/europe/britain-muslims-survey/index.html https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-57923023 https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2023/6/19/muslims-opposed-to-lgbtq-curricula-for-their-kids-arent-bigots Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted July 31 Share Posted July 31 2 minutes ago, HeteroErectus said: As an above comment from another poster; perhaps the modern liberal vision of multiculturalism, just isn't viable. Different groups either segregate/isolate themselves or clash when they are pushed together. Only really when provocateurs have spent years telling them they need to. Quote I'd be curious to see what the modern Liberal mind has to say on the new cultures views: https://edition.cnn.com/2016/04/11/europe/britain-muslims-survey/index.html https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-57923023 https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2023/6/19/muslims-opposed-to-lgbtq-curricula-for-their-kids-arent-bigots That 2016 survey was incredibly poorly done. The very article you linked details the failings in methodology. Plenty of Christians oppose the teaching of anything LGBTQ too, so perhaps Muslims fit into a Christian country better than some would claim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeteroErectus Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 (edited) 1 hour ago, HeliX said: Only really when provocateurs have spent years telling them they need to. That 2016 survey was incredibly poorly done. The very article you linked details the failings in methodology. Plenty of Christians oppose the teaching of anything LGBTQ too, so perhaps Muslims fit into a Christian country better than some would claim. Are you telling me, that CNN is not a trustworthy source? Where on Earth are the factcheckers on this one?? OK cool, the rapidly declining Christian population is one thing. But what about the rapidly growing, majority population of (atheist/non-practising christian) LGBTQX supporting normies? Do you think muslims and those people can come together? No, the can't. They are fundamentally and radically opposed. It's willful ignorance to suggest that it's just a small percentage of muslims that reject the gays. We are currently delaying the decision, in a very sick version of the "trolley problem". The longer this goes on, the higher the stakes. How many more people need to die before we say it's hasn't worked? That it's not just one "mentally ill individual"? Over and over again. A concert full of white children were blown to smithereens by a white-hating racist. We were told "don't look back in anger"... We've suffered terrorist attack after terrorist attack over the last 15 years. All perpetrators were people that saw themselves outside British society. Even in the very rare instance they are the dreaded bogeyman (right wing extremists 😱), there is a case to be made that those people don't "fit in" due to an oversaturation of competing cultures, that destroy the strong social cohesion (and there potential for inclusion) of a more homogeneous society. When people step out and say they do not want people in this society, who reject and hold said society in contempt, they are labelled racists/bigots/gammon blah blah blah etc. The problem here, is that when the right finally coalesce and organise themselves (plenty of data shows the young people are rejecting modern liberalism), it's going to be waaaay further right than anyone can imagine right now. Not to say I endorse (or reject) that, but the modern liberal has been using its own form of privilege to exclude swathes of our society from civil discourse for years. The further the Lefts boat drifts from the centre shore, the greater number of people stood on the shore, end up being seen as "right" or "far right". What do we gain from multiculturalism? What do we lose with multiculturalism? Edited August 1 by HeteroErectus 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeteroErectus Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 (edited) Just to add to that. If a terrorist event happens and it can be in credited to left wing policy such as multiculturalism.. that should be considered "left wing terrorism". Edited August 1 by HeteroErectus 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatRoundMiddle Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 3 hours ago, HeteroErectus said: Just to add to that. If a terrorist event happens and it can be in credited to left wing policy such as multiculturalism.. that should be considered "left wing terrorism". Multiculturalism stems from the British Empire rather than left wing policy, and Britain is a better place for it, the NHS even from its early days has always relied on importing British subjects from the former colonies. The British Army relied on British Indian troops in WW2 and of course a long association with Gurkhas. The UK has always had immigrants that have enriched the nations culture, The Danes, the French, American servicemen, you would have to be a right thick fuck to thing the UK was somehow monocultural until some lefties made it otherwise. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 7 hours ago, hoopsaa said: People have legitimate concerns about the levels of migration, about crime and about two tier policing, about the constant attacks on their history and culture, about economic injustice and a failing educational system. Legitimate concerns are absolutely fine but that brings us to your next point... 7 hours ago, hoopsaa said: Social media enables people to see where they are being lied to and mislead, while also enabling bad faith actors to mislead and lie. Social media was awash with false information and bad actors. Something I warned about very early in this thread. The Police weren't lying. They have withheld the identity of the suspect as they are under 18 years old and that is in accordance with UK Law. A judge may decide that it is in the public interest to release the name but that is not for the Police to do. The Police need to conduct their investigation and bring the person responsible for this atrocity before the courts. They are not obliged to update all the arm chair detectives. Through into this people like Farage who make incendiary statements (note he wasn't in Parliament when Yvette Cooper gave an update to MPs) and where he could have legitimately raised questions. Instead he took to social media to play on the lies that had been spread. 7 hours ago, hoopsaa said: The people attacking the police yesterday, who, for all their faults, stopped the man with the blade heading towards the vigil and put themselves at risk, were wankers. Did they? The reports I have seen said the person with the knife was stopped by Police very close to the vigil. The riots were taking place elsewhere. Would you care to cite your sources? 7 hours ago, hoopsaa said: But....ignore, condescend, ignore...rinse and repeat. What did you - they - think would happen eventually? We still don't know the motives of the person who attacked those children. So what exactly is being ignored? The problems here lie partly in austerity and the cuts in funding to the Police, Social Services and other public bodies which makes identifying and dealing with people who hold any form of extremist beliefs or who are mentally unwell very difficult. That can be largely laid at the door of a right of centre Conservative party. It is of course much easier to play identity politics and engage in culture wars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joebean Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 19 hours ago, John Wright said: Thats a very President Wilson, WW1, self determination, League of Nations view point. History is mainly about rulers, kings, princes, warlords, moving people around, imposing allegiance, even with little or no linguistic, religious, ethnic or other connection. Or, religion, and political thought separating otherwise consanguineous peoples. Countries, nation states, are a very late C19/early C20 concept - even in Europe. Apart from a few early outliers. And homogenisation of language and culture across even France, UK or Spain only started with compulsory education. Thats a very liberal reaction to what is happening and part of the reason why we are where we are. A “lesson”in history does not help much with the present. Never before has the indigenous population been subjected to such an influx of foreign cultures and alien values, some of which are in direct conflict with our own norms and often, our own laws and beliefs. This has happened without any regard for the views and concerns of the indigenous population, many of whom settled here from other countries and have their own religions but fundamentally accepted the cultural and social values of the country. It’s not about race; it’s about cultural identity and cultural conflict. Liberals tend to play the racist and far-right card to promote their notion of one-world globalism and discredit the wish of those that want Britain to be a place of safety, harmony and shared values; it’s evidence of the liberal and elitist contempt for notions of country, sovereignty and belonging. They ignore or vilify those that seek to promote it. We are beginning to see a backlash against this elitism and it will do nothing for tolerance and harmony. We are reaping the inedible harvest sown by generations of politicians and the supposed educated classes who signed up to policies that were all about the advancement of a globalist liberal agenda that had nothing to do with what is good for “ordinary” people. In many areas of the UK, British people of whatever colour or origin feel their backs are against the wall. This has been ignored at some peril and that peril is here. Starmer and his team in Parliament may say soothing words but I very much doubt whether they have any intention or resolve to take the actions necessary to deal with what is coming. 5 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 The initial reports about the attacker said that he was born in Cardiff to Rwandan parents, later moving to Banks. Not sure why his parentage was relevant, but is possibly categorised him to some people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake me up Judy Posted August 1 Author Share Posted August 1 Great post Joe Bean. Somebody gets it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 TBH, I am lost on what is the real cause of this tension, other than sheer thuggery. Are the lives of the rioters really affected and threatened to the degree that they felt the only option was to riot? Did any one of those rioters have a relative or someone close to them directly affected by the stabbings? Or was it a convenient excuse, helped by the misinformation about the origin of the suspect? Most people just get along with their neighbours, of any background, as long as they conform to the general standards of this society, which most do. They may still have their own religious and cultural differences, but not sufficient to impinge on others' lives. However, there are some who are not happy with just getting along with 'different', culture religion, skin or football team, and they react violently. We need proper facts as to how these people are actually impacted in their lives by 'different' other than an inate hatred of 'different'. It just isn't rational. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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