Southport Stabbings

[Mr. Sausages]

2 hours ago, Gladys said:

The initial reports about the attacker said that he was born in Cardiff  to Rwandan parents, later moving to Banks.  Not sure why his parentage was relevant, but is possibly categorised him to some  people. 

I think it was a response to the false reports naming him as a Muslim asylum seeker who had arrived on a boat last year. They were clumsily pointing out that it wasn’t true, but racists just read the word Rwanda.

Edited August 1 by Mr. Sausages

[Gladys]

11 minutes ago, Mr. Sausages said:

I think it was a response to the false reports naming him as a Muslim asylum seeker who had arrived on a boat last year. They were clumsily pointing out that it wasn’t true, but racists just read the word Rwanda.

Yes, sure it didn't help.  Perhaps all the details needed were that he was born in Cardiff.  Do many people riot against the Welsh? 

[woolley]

Nice to see some adults in evidence on the previous page rather than just the usual brainwashed, hand-wringing liberal goons having their free run in the echo chamber.

[HeliX]

7 hours ago, HeteroErectus said:

Are you telling me, that CNN is not a trustworthy source? Where on Earth are the factcheckers on this one?? 

OK cool, the rapidly declining Christian population is one thing. But what about the rapidly growing, majority population of (atheist/non-practising christian) LGBTQX supporting normies?

Do you think muslims and those people can come together? No, the can't. They are fundamentally and radically opposed.

It's willful ignorance to suggest that it's just a small percentage of muslims that reject the gays. 

We are currently delaying the decision, in a very sick version of the "trolley problem". The longer this goes on, the higher the stakes.

How many more people need to die before we say it's hasn't worked? That it's not just one "mentally ill individual"? Over and over again. 

A concert full of white children were blown to smithereens by a white-hating racist. We were told "don't look back in anger"...

We've suffered terrorist attack after terrorist attack over the last 15 years. All perpetrators were people that saw themselves outside British society. Even in the very rare instance they are the dreaded bogeyman (right wing extremists 😱), there is a case to be made that those people don't "fit in" due to an oversaturation of competing cultures, that destroy the strong social cohesion (and there potential for inclusion) of a more homogeneous society.

When people step out and say they do not want people in this society, who reject and hold said society in contempt, they are labelled racists/bigots/gammon blah blah blah etc.

The problem here, is that when the right finally coalesce and organise themselves (plenty of data shows the young people are rejecting modern liberalism), it's going to be waaaay further right than anyone can imagine right now. 

Not to say I endorse (or reject) that, but the modern liberal has been using its own form of privilege to exclude swathes of our society from civil discourse for years. The further the Lefts boat drifts from the centre shore, the greater number of people stood on the shore, end up being seen as "right" or "far right". 

What do we gain from multiculturalism? What do we lose with multiculturalism?

I didn't say anything negative about CNN, they didn't produce the survey and they also did cite the problems with it. 

The overwhelming majority of Muslims, like anyone else, just want to get on with their own lives rather than interfere in anybody else's. The most vocal anti-gay/trans/whatever individuals in this country are not Muslims. 

Claiming that when a right wing extremist does violence that it's Muslims fault for existing is absurd.

[HeliX]

7 hours ago, HeteroErectus said:

Just to add to that. If a terrorist event happens and it can be in credited to left wing policy such as multiculturalism.. that should be considered "left wing terrorism".

 

Which left wing government is responsible for the massive amounts of immigration over the last decade?

[manxman1980]

2 hours ago, joebean said:

Thats a very liberal reaction to what is happening and part of the reason why we are where we are. A “lesson”in history does not help much with the present.

If we don't learn from history then aren't we doomed to make the same mistakes?

2 hours ago, joebean said:

Never before has the indigenous population been subjected to such an influx of foreign cultures and alien values, some of which are in direct conflict with our own norms and often, our own laws and beliefs. This has happened without any regard for the views and concerns of the indigenous population, many of whom settled here from other countries and have their own religions but fundamentally accepted the cultural and social values of the country.

Are you sure about that?  What about when the British Empire was collapsing and people were moving to the UK?  How do explain signs in windows saying "No Blacks or Irish"?  

Our cultural norms are always changing.  There is plenty that went on in the 70's and 80's that we would not tolerate today and view as best being consigned to history.  

It seems to me that you and others want to pick a specific moment in British history and freeze time because your memory says that there were no problems and everyone generally got along.

I am sorry to burst your bubble but that isn't true.  Today we are exposed to many more of these horrors because we live in a digital age where reports (true and false) are circulated rapidly.  We have 24 hour rolling news coverage and a demand to fill that time.

In the past certain incidents, like the one at Manchester Airport would probably never have been reported beyond the local news at best.  Why?  Because we didn't all carry cameras with us and there wasn't CCTV everywhere.  

The awful events in Southport would have been picked up nationally but you would not have had the misinformation swirl around the world.  Sure, it may have spread verbally in the local area through the man in the pub but that was it.

2 hours ago, joebean said:

It’s not about race; it’s about cultural identity and cultural conflict. Liberals tend to play the racist and far-right card to promote their notion of one-world globalism and discredit the wish of those that want Britain to be a place of safety, harmony and shared values; it’s evidence of the liberal and elitist contempt for notions of country, sovereignty and belonging. They ignore or vilify those that seek to promote it. 

I treat everyone with respect until they prove themselves to be unworthy of it.  I have worked with people from a whole variety of backgrounds and never had an issue.  I have lived next to muslims and never had an issue.

I have seen extremists behaviour from white, asians, black of all religions and I have an issue with that.  

The problem in cases like this is the misinformation that spreads, led by racists, that then is treated as the truth by other groups in society - generally those who have valid concerns over the cost of living, availability of housing, access to benefits and education - which then leads to them being easily manipulated by extremists.  

When people call for calm and to allow the Police to do their job we are shouted down as being "loony lefties", traitors etc.  

2 hours ago, joebean said:

We are beginning to see a backlash against this elitism and it will do nothing for tolerance and harmony. We are reaping the inedible harvest sown by generations of politicians and the supposed educated classes who signed up to policies that were all about the advancement of a globalist liberal agenda that had nothing to do with what is good for “ordinary” people. In many areas of the UK, British people of whatever colour or origin feel their backs are against the wall. This has been ignored at some peril and that peril is here.

The problem is deprivation in our society not supposed "elites".  Do you believe that Trump is not part of the "elite"?  What about Farage?  What about Johnson?  These are all people who have pretended to be separate from the "elite" but in truth are part of it.

2 hours ago, joebean said:

Starmer and his team in Parliament may say soothing words but I very much doubt whether they have any intention or resolve to take the actions necessary to deal with what is coming.  

The Labour party have only been in Government a few weeks.  They don't have a magic wand.

Where was the action from the previous Conservative Government which, lets face it, was becoming more and more right wing.  It failed to do anything but stoke the fires of hatred and division.

[woolley]

6 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

It seems to me that you and others want to pick a specific moment in British history and freeze time because your memory says that there were no problems and everyone generally got along.

I am sorry to burst your bubble but that isn't true.  Today we are exposed to many more of these horrors because we live in a digital age where reports (true and false) are circulated rapidly.  We have 24 hour rolling news coverage and a demand to fill that time.

In the past certain incidents, like the one at Manchester Airport would probably never have been reported beyond the local news at best.  Why?  Because we didn't all carry cameras with us and there wasn't CCTV everywhere.  

The awful events in Southport would have been picked up nationally but you would not have had the misinformation swirl around the world.  Sure, it may have spread verbally in the local area through the man in the pub but that was it.

I don't know how old you are, MM1980, but I promise you this is total nonsense.

I had family connections with Manchester Airport (Ringway, as it was known back then to the locals), and nothing like this ever happened. A few rowdy drunks and high spirits was about the height of it. There was nothing approaching the atrocities of, say, the Manchester Arena bombing, or the butchering of small children in public places. There simply wasn't. Too many people are in denial by claiming it's always been the same.

[manxman1980]

7 minutes ago, woolley said:

I don't know how old you are, MM1980, but I promise you this is total nonsense.

I had family connections with Manchester Airport (Ringway, as it was known back then to the locals), and nothing like this ever happened. A few rowdy drunks and high spirits was about the height of it. There was nothing approaching the atrocities of, say, the Manchester Arena bombing, or the butchering of small children in public places. There simply wasn't. Too many people are in denial by claiming it's always been the same.

I would suggest a quick search of newspaper articles from the region would prove you wrong.  There were the Moors Murders and Trevor Hardy as a starting point.

The Arndale centre was bombed by the IRA which injured 212 people and fortunately no fatalities.  Largely thanks to the fact that the IRA had the "decency" to send warnings.  

[Gladys]

9 minutes ago, woolley said:

I don't know how old you are, MM1980, but I promise you this is total nonsense.

I had family connections with Manchester Airport (Ringway, as it was known back then to the locals), and nothing like this ever happened. A few rowdy drunks and high spirits was about the height of it. There was nothing approaching the atrocities of, say, the Manchester Arena bombing, or the butchering of small children in public places. There simply wasn't. Too many people are in denial by claiming it's always been the same.

No one is claiming it has always been the same. Insofar as tensions between various factions, which has always existed,  there has been a change in that those tensions are now revealing themselves in violence. How you can rationalise that as being a result of multi-culturalism rather than an increase in weaponised thuggery, is beyond me. 

Do you really think you could sit down with any of those rioters and have a rational discussion on why they behave the way they do, or to identify the true cause? I suspect as you continue to ask why, the reasoning will become more and more vague and based on a perception, if not 'because they are black/ muslim/immigrant. 

[RecklessAbandon]

It is saddening to see that there are what appear to be some on MF who are in effect cheering on the right wing yobbos and their "cause".

 

 

[The Phantom]

57 minutes ago, Gladys said:

Do many people riot against the Welsh? 

The Welsh would about the English given half the chance.  

[HeteroErectus]

1 hour ago, HeliX said:

Which left wing government is responsible for the massive amounts of immigration over the last decade?

The tories and Labour before them..

🤭

[HeteroErectus]

58 minutes ago, RecklessAbandon said:

It is saddening to see that there are what appear to be some on MF who are in effect cheering on the right wing yobbos and their "cause".

 

 

Would you call Palestinians who are sick of seeing their children dismembered, "right wing yobbos"? 

[HeteroErectus]

1 hour ago, HeliX said:

Claiming that when a right wing extremist does violence that it's Muslims fault for existing is absurd.

I didn't say that.

[HeliX]

10 minutes ago, HeteroErectus said:

The tories and Labour before them..

🤭

So there wasn't one, then?

5 minutes ago, HeteroErectus said:

Would you call Palestinians who are sick of seeing their children dismembered, "right wing yobbos"? 

This'd be a great analogy if Brits had been forced out of their homes, killed in droves and kept in an open air prison for the thick end of a century.

1 minute ago, HeteroErectus said:

I didn't say that.

" Even in the very rare instance they are the dreaded bogeyman (right wing extremists 😱), there is a case to be made that those people don't "fit in" due to an oversaturation of competing cultures, that destroy the strong social cohesion (and there potential for inclusion) of a more homogeneous society. "