KWC fees.

[Mercenary]

1 hour ago, Harry Lamb said:

This was Milton Friedman's idea, which he proposed alongside abolishing medical licences and abolishing restrictions on access to drugs. Mrs T's group of happy free-marketers imported some of this thinking into the NHS, believing that operating hospital in competition would improve standards. It didn't of course. They've tried the same with education, with league tables and so on. So rich people game the system by buying houses in the 'best' catchment areas, or use fee-paying schools. A voucher system with 5 secondary schools would make what little forward planning the government indulges in pointless. There is some record of success for vouchers, but only where state spending on education is significantly higher.

It's effectively what Tony Blair's academy schools did which had a reasonably positive effect on outcomes for children (particularly in deprived areas), by bringing competition into the education environment and giving alternative options to the (often complacent) local government ran secondary schools (particularly pertinent to the IOM?)

 

I certainly didn't have the money to send my children to KWC but I think it's an overall benefit to the Island. I'm also of the opinion efforts should be on improving state education (which has seemed to be at the whims of teacher unions, removing any performance measuring, e.g. from primary schools up) rather than removing alternatives.

 

"There is an overall positive effect, equivalent to a pupil achieving one grade higher in each of five GCSE subjects" (education policy institute on academy schools)

[Ringy Rose]

5 hours ago, Chinahand said:

The tax is being added as the government considers a private education a superfluous luxury, something to be discouraged.

We pay VAT on clothes but I’m fairly sure the government don’t want to discourage the wearing of clothes.

27 minutes ago, Chinahand said:

is close enough to the edge as it is.

If fees of £25k per year + boarding aren’t enough to keep it going then VAT ain’t going to make a difference.

 

1 hour ago, WTF said:

so the end result could be nobody goes to private school so no vat coming into government   but all the pupils/students then need places in state schools, more expense for government , seems counter productive to me.

I’d say it is more likely that the people who use KWC will suck up the price rise, just as they’ve sucked up the 25% price rise since 2021.

And that’s if KWC make the commercial decision to pass the tax on- they don’t have to.

As for the additional cost of all the pupils moving, even if 10% leave then that’s only 35-40 pupils. The addition of 35 pupils into the state system has a negligible cost. The vast majority of the education system’s cost is fixed. The marginal cost of 7 extra pupils at each of our five secondary schools is bob all.

[Ringy Rose]

6 minutes ago, Mercenary said:

It's effectively what Tony Blair's academy schools did which had a reasonably positive effect on outcomes for children (particularly in deprived areas), by bringing competition into the education environment and giving alternative options to the (often complacent) local government ran secondary schools (particularly pertinent to the IOM?)

Academy schools have changed very little. They’re less efficient and there is widespread corruption within the academy chains. What academies DID do was decrease teachers’ pay and conditions- academies can pay what they want, and usually do, classroom assistants bearing the brunt of it.

What did partially change things was moving away from ‘catchment areas’ which ended up ghettoising poorer children into poorer schools. In the Isle of Man that wouldn’t have the same impact because we don’t have the same level of inequality as they do in the UK.

[HeliX]

25 minutes ago, Ringy Rose said:

And that’s if KWC make the commercial decision to pass the tax on- they don’t have to.

What do you think they are, a charity?! Oh...

[Mercenary]

1 hour ago, Ringy Rose said:

Academy schools have changed very little. They’re less efficient and there is widespread corruption within the academy chains. What academies DID do was decrease teachers’ pay and conditions- academies can pay what they want, and usually do, classroom assistants bearing the brunt of it.

What did partially change things was moving away from ‘catchment areas’ which ended up ghettoising poorer children into poorer schools. In the Isle of Man that wouldn’t have the same impact because we don’t have the same level of inequality as they do in the UK.

Well that's certainly the teacher's view on things. I'm not advocating for academies on island as it's not big enough - but the choice they offered in areas across definitely seemed to boost teaching standards and performance. 

 

Over here they ditched the Key Stage 1 SATs/assessments due to teacher pressure, everyone's a winner if there's no measurement. 

[Ringy Rose]

13 hours ago, Mercenary said:

but the choice they offered in areas across definitely seemed to boost teaching standards and performance

Academies didn’t offer “choice”- the long-standing local comprehensive school just changed owner from the council to the academy trust. Nothing else changed, except pay and conditions. Teachers were protected from the worst of it by their unions but teaching assistants, nursery nurses, cleaners, etc, have generally been royally shafted by the change. The academy trust managers generally benefited the other way, funnily enough.

You may be thinking of “free schools” which were set up in addition to and outside of the local comprehensive school system. Some have been very successful, some have been merely OK but have benefited from good publicity, and some have not been very good at all.

13 hours ago, Mercenary said:

Over here they ditched the Key Stage 1 SATs/assessments due to teacher pressure, everyone's a winner if there's no measurement. 

SATs are of limited use in assessing the actual competence of teachers and of the schools they work in. 

As is so often the way, a holistic view of both objective and subjective standards gets narrowed down into what can be easily tested, and what can be easily tested is then turned into the KPI. In short, teachers end up teaching the SATs- and inevitably their focus is on the children who will generate the best SATs scores- and don’t teach anything else.

The KS1 SATs were abolished in the UK in 2023 for this very reason. In simplistic terms the KS1 SATs were really only measuring how middle class and engaged a child’s parent is.

[Harry Lamb]

1 hour ago, Ringy Rose said:

Academies didn’t offer “choice”- the long-standing local comprehensive school just changed owner from the council to the academy trust. Nothing else changed, except pay and conditions. Teachers were protected from the worst of it by their unions but teaching assistants, nursery nurses, cleaners, etc, have generally been royally shafted by the change. The academy trust managers generally benefited the other way, funnily enough.

You may be thinking of “free schools” which were set up in addition to and outside of the local comprehensive school system. Some have been very successful, some have been merely OK but have benefited from good publicity, and some have not been very good at all.

SATs are of limited use in assessing the actual competence of teachers and of the schools they work in. 

As is so often the way, a holistic view of both objective and subjective standards gets narrowed down into what can be easily tested, and what can be easily tested is then turned into the KPI. In short, teachers end up teaching the SATs- and inevitably their focus is on the children who will generate the best SATs scores- and don’t teach anything else.

The KS1 SATs were abolished in the UK in 2023 for this very reason. In simplistic terms the KS1 SATs were really only measuring how middle class and engaged a child’s parent is.

It's also fair to point out that the most vociferous objections to KS1 SATs came from parents.

[WTF]

42 minutes ago, Harry Lamb said:

It's also fair to point out that the most vociferous objections to KS1 SATs came from parents.

yes, they were fed up of being reminded how thick their kids are

[Mercenary]

3 hours ago, Ringy Rose said:

The KS1 SATs were abolished in the UK in 2023 for this very reason. In simplistic terms the KS1 SATs were really only measuring how middle class and engaged a child’s parent is.

Abolished or made optional (reasonable difference in my view)?

 

How are primary schools currently assessed here?

[2bees]

Self assessment… we’re ace, very good at our job and bye now.

[Whiskey]

14 hours ago, 2bees said:

Self assessment… we’re ace, very good at our job and bye now.

That didn’t happen at Rushen. 

[Harry Lamb]

It's undoubtedly true that some of our schools could be better, and some teachers, too. It's also true that standards go up in line with spending. However, it's remarkable how well children learn if there are books and other resources at home and parents who actively encourage learning of academic and non-academic subjects, who value education and teach their children to value it too: these children seem to thrive in almost any educational setting in the Island, fee-paying or not. It's not just middle-class families either, because some less well-off see learning as a way up and out and their children succeed too. Some parents on the other hand see school as a glorified child-minding service, or are unsupportive of basic discipline, or use education as a vehicle for their religious or political beliefs. As Tom Lehrer (almost) said: school is like a sewer; what you get out of it depends on what you put in to it.

[HeliX]

6 hours ago, Whiskey said:

That didn’t happen at Rushen. 

It probably did, but then the inspection found it to be lies. Which is why the inspections exist.

[Ringy Rose]

[quote]ministers acknowledge the significant role King William’s College plays, not just in delivering education on the Island, but also in contributing to the local economy.

They say they are working closely with the college to explore ways to help navigate this transition and identify areas where government support might be provided.[/quote]

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/king-williams-college-fees-to-be-removed-from-vat-exemption-list/

So there’s no money and the government put our taxes up and they think we should shut primary schools. But there’s all the money in the world to give KWC protection from a tax rise- a tax rise they don’t have to pass on.

Remind me which school Temu Toryboy Cannan went to again? Nothing to see here.

 

[Omobono]

King Bills should stand on its own two feet  state schools are currently underfunded by government  if you want to give your child a private education  then you should be expected to pay for it , or are we going to see tax relief  on money spent on private education ? I hope not  some dastardly plan will be on the cards  just wait and see