staaue Posted October 4, 2005 Author Share Posted October 4, 2005 When the Jinney the witch song first came out, I believe the word 'beat' was used, but then became 'leather' later. e.g. there was a fight and the smaller lad got leathered.. Leather was beaten to make it supple, hence the term leathered. Hampton Creer believes Jinney the witch was a real person. Margaret Quain in 1617'ish was burned at the stake at Castletown for witchcraft. Nobody else was burned at the steak as the Manks found it so horrifying.. Oh, and her son was burned alive on a pile of dry heather too for good measure.. Joaney lowney from Braddan was put on trail at Bishop's court on the 1st June 1715, she lived on the Mount Murray back road and was accused of cursing and living a wicked life. A santon man called at her house one night seeking shelter from a storm.. shortly after going to bed saw joaney get into a pot and fly away over the house, not returning until the morning. Hence the song was born. This is a true story which I heard on Manx radio last year. I have a copy of the program that I would be happy to give to anyone via email if you PM me your email address. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 Margaret Quain in 1617'ish was burned at the steak the original Manx big M ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staaue Posted October 4, 2005 Author Share Posted October 4, 2005 What I mean't to say was ..... While people were being burned at the stake.... stake and chips was served... Nice one Frances.. you had me baffled for a minute.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speckled Frost Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 Next someone will be telling me kids don't put candles in their turnips because it's not safe. Probably put those new fangled torch things in instead. Part of the experience was the frustration at having to continually light the damned thing in gale force winds. Money had to be earned in those days - yes, it was hard, cold cash we got, not poncey sweets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staaue Posted October 4, 2005 Author Share Posted October 4, 2005 Speckled Frost.. What do you mean??? Has someone told you not to use candles or something.? Candles are an absolute must.. Its part of the joy of hop tu naa as a kid. When we went out on hop tu naa, we recieved coppers, maybe one or two people gave us ONE sweet. Thats all kids get when they come to my door.. coppers It isn't just about money, is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 LOL sorry got me dates mixed up of halloween + bonfire night! but then again i had just knecked 2 liters of cider + half a bottle of wine!!! so i think i can excuse my self from the silly mistake! But no im not manx, + yes I am from up yonder + not far from that neck of the woods Yes a merlin is a fish in fact is second of third fastest species, they can travel alright! but it also losely refers to someone who practices magic + spells ect. But witchcraft is mearly using herbalism, rune stones, rituals, charms, spells ect to better oneself + indeed others. Its not about worshiping satan or doing evil ect in fact the Wiccan code of ethics FORBIDS them to do, wish or cast spells of harm to anyone. As already been touched upon here about the witches trails? The salom witch trials of i think it was In massetucets in the USA? IT WAS JUST THE TERRIBLE HANGING + BURNING OF INNOCENT WHITE WITCHES!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amadeus Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 What? No "Halloween" over here then? Got the decorations up already, and although Mr Pumpkin and the light effects are still missing, Eddy has already moved in: 31st of October - the only day of the year where my front garden looks the part.. And I shall stick with my Pumpkin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonan3 Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 The observance of the Celtic New Year remains an important part of Manx tradition and the celebration of Hop Tu Naa celebrates the opportunity to reflect on the past and look into the future. Hop-tu-Naa, Hollantide, and Hogmanay all derive from the celebration of the Celtic New Year, Sauin in Manx and Samhain in Irish. This is not All Hallows, an Anglo-Saxon holy day, but the division of the Celtic year into quarters. Nowadays Hop-tu-Naa is celebrated on 31st October, and the children carry turnip lanterns from house to house.Once the traditional Hollandtide Eve supper was potatoes, parsnips and fish mashed together with butter. Anything remaining from the meal is left on the table in case the fairies were hungry, and crocks of fresh water were put out for them. Old customs may pass, but this is still the night when fairy folk, phynnodderee and witches are most active, a magic time when the veil between this world and the next is at its thinnest. A child born on the eve of the Celtic New Year is believed to have the gift of clairvoyance, but such things are better left unspoken. Hallowe'en, therefore, is a somewhat 'newish' invention that should be ignored by those who value our customs and traditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempus Fugit Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 When the Jinney the witch song first came out, I believe the word 'beat' was used, but then became 'leather' later. e.g. there was a fight and the smaller lad got leathered.. Leather was beaten to make it supple, hence the term leathered. Hampton Creer believes Jinney the witch was a real person. Margaret Quain in 1617'ish was burned at the stake at Castletown for witchcraft. Nobody else was burned at the steak as the Manks found it so horrifying.. Oh, and her son was burned alive on a pile of dry heather too for good measure.. Joaney lowney from Braddan was put on trail at Bishop's court on the 1st June 1715, she lived on the Mount Murray back road and was accused of cursing and living a wicked life. A santon man called at her house one night seeking shelter from a storm.. shortly after going to bed saw joaney get into a pot and fly away over the house, not returning until the morning. Hence the song was born. This is a true story which I heard on Manx radio last year. I have a copy of the program that I would be happy to give to anyone via email if you PM me your email address. thats the one, I couldn't remember where I had heard it, must have been listening to the same programme thanks for the reminder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScope Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 Yes a merlin is a fish in fact is second of third fastest species That'll be a Marlin then. In case you were interested Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speckled Frost Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 No, the merlinfish exists, it's like the marlin but with more tricks up its sleeve. Similarly, the salefish is like the sailfish but you get more than you bargained for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScope Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 No, the merlinfish exists, it's like the marlin but with more tricks up its sleeve. Similarly, the salefish is like the sailfish but you get more than you bargained for. And the monkfish is nearly extinct coz its celibate, right? Right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Anderton Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 NO NO NO Those words your giving out are just some old crappy version started in the 60's. The original was something like (same tune ish) Hop tu na Put in the pot Hop tu na i scold my throt Hop tu na i met an old woman Hop tu na she was baking bonnags Hop tu na i asked for a bit Hop tu na she gave me a bit, as big as my big toe Hop tu na she dipped in milk Hop tu na she wrapped it in silk Hop tu na tra la ley Ginny the witch jumped over the house give me a penny and I'll get her out (or.. fetch a stick to lather the mouse) hoptu naa tra la ley give me a penny before i run off by the light of the moon And if your in Peel the kids hold the moot (turnip) by the roots as a handle (very strange to see) So there you go staaue, just like the song kids (including me) have been singing since the the 70s maybe pumpkins are just another sign of hop tu naa progressing, Cut the kids some slack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staaue Posted October 5, 2005 Author Share Posted October 5, 2005 What year Mr Anderton the 1960's 1860's or 1760's? My mother remembers singing that song in the 1950's and is positive it goes way back, so I don't know where you get your dates from mate... Please furnish us with some sources for your claims Those words your giving out are just some old crappy version started in the 60's. The original was something like (same tune ish) Hmmm.. "old crappy version". I said in my first post.. The traditional song will of course be rewarded with goodies.. I implied nothing, other than standing at my door saying trick or treat isn't going to go down very well. Thescope wrote the words... All together now... "Hop tu naa, me mothers gone away And she wont be back until the morning ginny the witch flew over the house to catch the stick to ladder the mouse Hop tu naa..." And I made a comment about a cheeky version we would sing to those who chose to abstain from the tradition. You stating that I'm giving out the wrong words is incorrect, Totally agree with your wording, not that I ever sang it. I like the end part which is more like the more modern song but more understandable. It resembles the old song with a twist of the new one.. I've read many versions all basically saying similar things. As a point of reference the following link has some relavent material relating to different 'Bannags' http://www.isle-of-man.com/manxnotebook/iomnhas/lm3p175.htm You'll find it half way down the linked page. Hop tu na Put in the potHop tu na i scold my throt Hop tu na i met an old woman Hop tu na she was baking bonnags Hop tu na i asked for a bit Hop tu na she gave me a bit, as big as my big toe Hop tu na she dipped in milk Hop tu na she wrapped it in silk Hop tu na tra la ley Ginny the witch jumped over the house give me a penny and I'll get her out (or.. fetch a stick to lather the mouse) hoptu naa tra la ley give me a penny before i run off by the light of the moon It makes more sense that you stand at someone’s door telling them that a witch has just flown over their house and for a penny you'll go and get her... I always wondered what a mouse had to do with anything.. Why change a fundamental part of one tradition, substitute it with something from another in one step and call it progression. I understand progression/change being a necessity sometimes, normally done to keep a tradition alive. Hence the Hop tu naa we have today. But to change elements of it in the name of fashion.. preposterous... That is an extremely english thing to do, isn't it James, my question to you is why would you condone this??? Why change? Have we ran out of Napin or something. Yn vannag comes in many variances, me personally couldn't care which one is used!! That is completely irrelenant to the reason I started this tread. Gura mie oo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Woo Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 I think we used to wander around Peel singing something like this: Hop-tu-naa- I met an old woman Tra-la-laa - She was baking bonnags Hop-tu-Naa- I asked for a bit Tra-la-laa - She gave me a bit, Hop-tu-Naa- as big as my toe. Tra-la laa She dipped it in milk Tra-la-laa -She wrapped it in silk Hop-tu-Naa, Tra-la-laa Jinny the Witch flew over the house To catch a stick to lather the mouse Hop-tu-Naa, Tra-la-laa If you're going to give us something Give it to us soon We want to be away By the light of the moon! Hop-tu-Naa Hop-tu-Naa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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