Is the state becoming harmful to its citizens?

[Gladys]

Wasn't sure if this should be here or in the International section, but .....

The Grenfell Report criticises the actions of many state organisations, from the fire service to the local authority to central government.  It seems like the 'state' was working against the best interests of its citizens, indeed may be considered as harmful.  Robert Peston pointed out tonight that there has been a catalogue of state failings which have caused actual harm to many of its citizens: the Post Office; the infected blood scandal; Hillsborough to name a few.

What has this to do with the IOM? Well, just about every thread in this section refers to some failing in our government, perceived or actual, be it the alleged procurement of useless fire equipment at the airport, over-zealous policing, failure in major capital projects or failure to secure the best deal for the leasing of our territorial seabed. 

Fortunately, there have been no recent failings here leading to a loss of life (although the are some recent events which could be argued to fall into that category, Abbotswood, inadequate mental health safeguarding in the prison, for example) but why is it that it seems that the state is actually working to the detriment of its citizens? Is it because the 'state' will and must always survive regardless, or arrogance, unaccountability and incompetence?

I am not a conspiracist, but do believe that as someone else pointed out, large, powerful organisations take on an impetus that swallows up the individuals within it and becomes self-preserving and serving rather than preserving and serving those it is putatively there to serve.

It really is time to examine what the role of government is and radically adjust the ethos, here and elsewhere. 

Bit of a rant, but you will get the gist. 

 

[WTF]

put the gin away Glad

[Gladys]

1 minute ago, WTF said:

put the gin away Glad

Haven't started yet! 

[Happier diner]

5 minutes ago, Gladys said:

Haven't started yet! 

Start!

[Ringy Rose]

20 minutes ago, Gladys said:

am not a conspiracist, but do believe that as someone else pointed out, large, powerful organisations take on an impetus that swallows up the individuals within it

It’s more the other way around, the senior management set the ethos and the rest of the organisation follows it.

Kensington and Chelsea Council have long been notorious as a haven of Thatcherite principles, so it’s not exactly a massive surprise they didn’t give a fuck about the people in social housing. 

The government department was run by Eric Pickles, who has always been about “cutting red tape” without any thought to the consequences. This isn’t new, Pickles was like this when he was just starting out in Bradford. The effect of his “reforms” in Bradford council in 1990 are still being felt in that city now.

What the whole thing shows is that you need a regulator which is well funded and which has teeth. Without that, they’re either toothless or inexperienced or you get regulatory capture. The Tories, of course, ensured that none of the UK regulators have any sort of power- there last thing they did was change the rules of the UK FCA to dictate that the UK FCA was responsible for promoting business as well as its regulatory objectives.

 

Edited September 4 by Ringy Rose

[Gladys]

1 hour ago, Ringy Rose said:

It’s more the other way around, the senior management set the ethos and the rest of the organisation follows it.

Kensington and Chelsea Council have long been notorious as a haven of Thatcherite principles, so it’s not exactly a massive surprise they didn’t give a fuck about the people in social housing. 

The government department was run by Eric Pickles, who has always been about “cutting red tape” without any thought to the consequences. This isn’t new, Pickles was like this when he was just starting out in Bradford. The effect of his “reforms” in Bradford council in 1990 are still being felt in that city now.

What the whole thing shows is that you need a regulator which is well funded and which has teeth. Without that, they’re either toothless or inexperienced or you get regulatory capture. The Tories, of course, ensured that none of the UK regulators have any sort of power- there last thing they did was change the rules of the UK FCA to dictate that the UK FCA was responsible for promoting business as well as its regulatory objectives.

 

Yes, I see the particular circumstances, but the underlying theme of many of these scandals is the sense of impunity that the various organs of state seem to operate under.  

I have been following the Post Office inquiry and it seems clear to me that many of the actions taken by individuals all the way through the PO and in HMG departments were only possible through a kind of corporate self-justification of preservation of the institution.  Of course, this was presented under the cloak of respectability of  protecting public funds and reputation. 

A continued question throughout the inquiry was why nobody thought there may be a bit of a conflict where the PO acted as victim, investigator and prosecutor.  Nope, no one thought that may be an issue, because 'we are that trusted organ of state the good old PO.'

[Gladys]

PS Sir Wyn Williams is a joy to watch. 

[asitis]

In respect of the island, what we need is for power to be restored to democracy. As much as I parody our politicos for being basically useless, I acknowledge that the power doesn't rest with them, it resides in the upper echelons of the CS ( many of course recruited from elsewhere). Of course we have the same political malady in some, that lots of places do, where politicos overriding priority is to care for their own well being, and see election as a means to that end. Undoubtedly, there are some who try to remember that they are meant to be representing the interests of all the people, but we have seen it time and time again where the CS back dreadful decisions and politicos have no choice but to spout the mantra and naively end up 'holding the baby'.

Here the direction of the 'state' clearly rests with one man, the CM, backed by the CS machine, Comin are basically useless and self preserving, as any independent thought and or opinion is silenced by dismissal. It is amazing that us, as a very small nation, should be able to administer democracy in a way which encompasses the interests of the voting population but imo we are as far from that as anywhere else !

[puppet1]

I think the part played by capitalism should be part of any analysis. 

 

Edited September 5 by puppet1
Grammar

[TheTeapot]

The state has always been harmful. 

[Harry Lamb]

Both the UK and the IoM have been run by politicians with right-wing views for years. They are predicated on greed and selfishness. Remember MT 'There is no such thing as society' ? We are living with the results. 

[Ringy Rose]

1 hour ago, asitis said:

As much as I parody our politicos for being basically useless, I acknowledge that the power doesn't rest with them, it resides in the upper echelons of the CS

Except it doesn’t. Politicians like to blame “the blob” for the politicians’ failures because “the blob” isn’t allowed to answer back. The politicians appoint the senior CS and the politicians can sack the senior CS, as we’ve seen with Cannan- unless you think the previous Chief Secretary really did decide to retire very suddenly.

Andy Ralphs is a Cannan appointee and you can tell: he’s a an arrogant, obnoxious, dim, right wing bullshit merchant.

Politicians very frequently throw the CS under the bus when things go wrong. It’s not the fact the politician has stupid ideas, it’s the fact that the CS didn’t implement them properly. Sure it is.

[asitis]

1 minute ago, Ringy Rose said:

Except it doesn’t. Politicians like to blame “the blob” for the politicians’ failures because “the blob” isn’t allowed to answer back. The politicians appoint the senior CS and the politicians can sack the senior CS, as we’ve seen with Cannan- unless you think the previous Chief Secretary really did decide to retire very suddenly.

Andy Ralphs is a Cannan appointee and you can tell: he’s a an arrogant, obnoxious, dim, right wing bullshit merchant.

Politicians very frequently throw the CS under the bus when things go wrong. It’s not the fact the politician has stupid ideas, it’s the fact that the CS didn’t implement them properly. Sure it is.

Not the view of two MHK I have spoken to recently.

[Ringy Rose]

9 hours ago, Gladys said:

A continued question throughout the inquiry was why nobody thought there may be a bit of a conflict where the PO acted as victim, investigator and prosecutor.  Nope, no one thought that may be an issue, because 'we are that trusted organ of state the good old PO

That’s not exclusive to the Post Office or their position as a state-owned business though. It’s a problem with the right that any organisation or individual has to bring a private prosecution. The football Premier League have had people sent to prison for showing a dodgy live stream in their pub, and that case was just as dubious as anything the Post Office did.

I do appreciate what you mean, but it’s not exclusive to the state sector either. Fishes rot from the head.

And you will always get people trying to cover up their mistakes or throw other people under the bus. There are a lot of people in Cheshire breathing a sigh of relief that Lucy Letby got thrown under the bus instead of them, put it that way.

Edited September 5 by Ringy Rose

[Ringy Rose]

4 minutes ago, asitis said:

Not the view of two MHK I have spoken to recently

As if to prove my point.

“It’s not my fault I’ve achieved sod all, it’s all the fault of the CS”.

Edited September 5 by Ringy Rose
Cleaning my potty mouth