Connectivity

[Gladys]

3 minutes ago, A fool and his money..... said:

They built something in Liverpool, it cost long millions more than it should have done. They don't really know why.

Having worked in and around Liverpool for a number of years, I could take an educated guess. Rumours within the industry over there seem to support it.

They don't even know how much it cost FFS. 

I think they have a pretty good idea why it went so over budget.  At a guess, I would say it was an insufficient pre-work assessment of what was actually needed to stabilise the site. 

[Happier diner]

6 minutes ago, A fool and his money..... said:

They built something in Liverpool, it cost long millions more than it should have done. They don't really know why.

Having worked in and around Liverpool for a number of years, I could take an educated guess. Rumours within the industry over there seem to support it.

They don't even know how much it cost FFS. 

They do know why. They are just not telling us. 

If course there will have been some theft. However if you seriously think that is the cause of the massive overspend you are after than I thought. 

[Happier diner]

2 minutes ago, Gladys said:

I think they have a pretty good idea why it went so over budget.  At a guess, I would say it was an insufficient pre-work assessment of what was actually needed to stabilise the site. 

Unless someone stole the engineering drawings😂

[A fool and his money.....]

4 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

They do know why. They are just not telling us. 

If course there will have been some theft. However if you seriously think that is the cause of the massive overspend you are after than I thought. 

Believe me they don't. Yes, they'll have a rough idea, but I've worked on enough building sites in my time to know that once stuff is booked into the site and allocated for a certain job, no-one cares too much about it.

Site management have enough on their plate, especially so when, as in this case, the job has gone well over time and they're under considerable pressure to get it done.

I've known a few private extensions almost exclusively built from materials from much more modest jobs right here on the law abiding Isle of Man.

You're very naive if you don't think the same thing only on a much greater scale was happening on this job. 

My recollection of working on Merseyside is that everybody, and I mean everybody has got a scam going on. Don't get me wrong, scousers are great people, super friendly, great fun and would help you out with anything. But if it's not screwed down, and often even if it is, don't expect it to be there in the morning.

[Non-Believer]

26 minutes ago, A fool and his money..... said:

They don't even know how much it cost FFS. 

DOI couldn't/wouldn't even supply accountable, accurate figures for the Douglas Prom work that they can see from their own offices.

If they can't do that, what's the chances of their properly monitoring a project that's turned out over 3 times the cost and 70+ miles away? And in Merseyside at that 🙄

[Happier diner]

20 minutes ago, A fool and his money..... said:

Believe me they don't. Yes, they'll have a rough idea, but I've worked on enough building sites in my time to know that once stuff is booked into the site and allocated for a certain job, no-one cares too much about it.

Site management have enough on their plate, especially so when, as in this case, the job has gone well over time and they're under considerable pressure to get it done.

I've known a few private extensions almost exclusively built from materials from much more modest jobs right here on the law abiding Isle of Man.

You're very naive if you don't think the same thing only on a much greater scale was happening on this job. 

My recollection of working on Merseyside is that everybody, and I mean everybody has got a scam going on. Don't get me wrong, scousers are great people, super friendly, great fun and would help you out with anything. But if it's not screwed down, and often even if it is, don't expect it to be there in the morning.

I never said that there was not petty crime. Happens everywhere. As I keep saying though, it is not the main reason for the massive overspend. 

I have worked on sites. I have seen all sorts of dodges including phantom workers etc. it's a constant though and estimated as less than 5% ( yes even in Liverpool). I am not naive. 

[Non-Believer]

12 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

I never said that there was not petty crime. Happens everywhere. As I keep saying though, it is not the main reason for the massive overspend. 

I have worked on sites. I have seen all sorts of dodges including phantom workers etc. it's a constant though and estimated as less than 5% ( yes even in Liverpool). I am not naive. 

5% of £100M is £5M.

So even by YOUR own accepted figures, it's very likely that millions of pounds worth of material, labour or plant hire/purchase can have been misappropriated from this project, a figure that you have earlier tried to deny and/or ridicule and claim that could not happen, for all sorts of sanctimonious shite.

Edited Sunday at 10:58 AM by Non-Believer
Extra bit

[Happier diner]

33 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

5% of £100M is £5M.

So even by YOUR own accepted figures, it's very likely that millions of pounds worth of material, labour or plant hire/purchase can have been misappropriated from this project, a figure that you have earlier tried to deny and/or ridicule and claim that could not happen, for all sorts of sanctimonious shite.

You must be dim or something. I am saying it's not the main reason. And I said up to 5%.

 

[Non-Believer]

1 hour ago, Happier diner said:

You must be dim or something. I am saying it's not the main reason. And I said up to 5%.

 

Can anybody give me a hand with a fishing line, I've got an absolute WHOPPER here?

£1M up to £5M is "millions". In potentially misappropriated goods, materials and labour from the IoM's taxpayer funded project on Merseyside.

This is the same poster who has previously been outright denying that any such thing could happen and suggested that I should be debarred from these boards and dragged into court for "libel against a Quantity Surveyor" for suggesting that it could. I sincerely hope that the Mods are monitoring this thread, you're hilarious.

Crawl back up the DOI's nether regions where you belong. 

[Happier diner]

2 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

Can anybody give me a hand with a fishing line, I've got an absolute WHOPPER here?

£1M up to £5M is "millions". In potentially misappropriated goods, materials and labour from the IoM's taxpayer funded project on Merseyside.

This is the same poster who has previously been outright denying that any such thing could happen and suggested that I should be debarred from these boards and dragged into court for "libel against a Quantity Surveyor" for suggesting that it could. I sincerely hope that the Mods are monitoring this thread, you're hilarious.

Crawl back up the DOI's nether regions where you belong. 

Even if there was £5M of theft that would have taken the cost from £22M to £27M.The cost went from £22M to over a £100M and counting.

That would be 400% of cost due to theft. Is that what you think? 

Perhaps we are are crossed purposes here. 

I won't trade insults with you anymore, I'll just stick to facts. Is it not possible to have a grown up discussion without being constantly accused of working for the DOI? I don't. You have my word. 

[A fool and his money.....]

2 hours ago, Happier diner said:

I never said that there was not petty crime. Happens everywhere. As I keep saying though, it is not the main reason for the massive overspend. 

The point is, we simply don't know. We don't even know how much the bloody thing cost and apparently we're "negotiating" about the snagging list.

If you truly believe that amongst all the multiple failings and ongoing uncertainty associated with this project, amongst all the mistakes that were made, they know exactly what every penny, every million even was spent on, then you are extremely naive.

Groundworks is always an easy one to cite because nobody can see it, and they are always expensive.

Estimating foul play at 5% is just that, a guess, and as someone else has already pointed out, 5% in this case is multiple millions. Believe you me, if someone has got away scot free with millions already, they will have been back for more.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure there were complications with the groundworks and the cost of materials escalated quickly with COVID and everything. All I'm saying is that even if they know how much material or labour was MIA, which I severely doubt, we'll never get to find out anyway.

[A fool and his money.....]

15 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

I won't trade insults with you anymore, I'll just stick to facts.

Good idea. What facts?

[Happier diner]

4 minutes ago, A fool and his money..... said:

Good idea. What facts?

That the overspend was not due to theft. 

[A fool and his money.....]

2 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

That the overspend was not due to theft. 

OK, so what was the overspend and what was it due to?

[Barlow]

20 minutes ago, A fool and his money..... said:

The point is, we simply don't know. We don't even know how much the bloody thing cost and apparently we're "negotiating" about the snagging list.

 

Does snagging include "does not work, or not very good anyway, on a cycle of every 12 hours". A bit like the opposite of a broken clock at least telling the correct time every 12 hours.