Armed Police - Casually strolling

[Two-lane]

This is a photo of the local police in Tenerife. Sorry. It's the only one I can find. The national police wear blue uniforms, and also carry a gun on their belt. Occasionally I have seen a national police person wearing a stab-vest. The last time I saw one it was hanging over the back of a chair in a bar while a bunch of them had an espresso

Tenerife has 1,000,000 people, with drug problems and Russian criminals etc. No doubt far, far, worse than here and also no doubt they have some heavy gear available - but they do not seem as worried as Flint in response times.

The police there are always armed, but there is a lot of difference between carrying a gun on a belt and wearing fairly normal clothes and,  as mentioned here, police walking down Strand Street carry assault rifle and wearing a quick-draw six-shooter on their thigh like John Wayne.

 

[Passing Time]

3 hours ago, Gladys said:

Are 'they' eating pets in Arbory?  

Only the squirrels...

[Derek Flint]

57 minutes ago, Albert Tatlock said:

Of course politicians do need to be involved. They enact the laws that you police and can reduce the number of weapons allowed (and therefore the number that are available)...and discourage possession through much higher penalties.

You say "minutes count", but I would argue that the response from centralised armouries on the island would be much quicker than gathering armed police up from various streets and shops across the island.

As to operational independence, yes of course if there is a threat. Threats come and go, but the current policy seems to be that you are expecting something to kick off imminently...but the reality I suspect is that you are simply trying to desensitise us to permanently armed police...which the majority of us do not want.

If there is a specific threat then tell us...chances are Joe Public will have most would-be suspects handed over in a matter of hours here.

We don't want armed criminals or armed police.

 

This isn't about law, although I started off the process to look at firearms law changes in......2016.

Are you suggesting restrictions on the shooting community?

We did the respond from armouries thing. That was why it was taking indefensibly long.

The police are permanently armed. Just not routinely as say PSNI.

And this isn't about immediacy - it's about foreseeability

29 minutes ago, Auntie Depressant said:

You’re 100% correct.  However, you’ve come in with your size 12 ex-policeman’s feet and annihilated any opportunity of that from the get go.

Regardless of necessity,or policy, or procedures, it would be obvious to anyone that island residents, with no information or pre-warning about this happening are going to feel unnerved by seeing armed officers in Costa.

You've had no empathy for that situation whatsoever. You’ve been scathing and supercilious in your replies and have done nothing to reassure people who will have been shocked about this monumental change to the island and about seeing armed weapons in a coffee shop of all places. That you can’t see that is seriously worrying and just reflects why so many people these days have little trust in, or respect for, the constabulary. 

I don't represent the IOMC or its policy so detach those two. 

I'm a former practitioner who retains currency of knowledge through my current professional interests l. We've gone through what current professional doctrine says and the context. How you interpret that insight is up to you 

[Derek Flint]

9 minutes ago, Two-lane said:

This is a photo of the local police in Tenerife. Sorry. It's the only one I can find. The national police wear blue uniforms, and also carry a gun on their belt. Occasionally I have seen a national police person wearing a stab-vest. The last time I saw one it was hanging over the back of a chair in a bar while a bunch of them had an espresso

Tenerife has 1,000,000 people, with drug problems and Russian criminals etc. No doubt far, far, worse than here and also no doubt they have some heavy gear available - but they do not seem as worried as Flint in response times.

The police there are always armed, but there is a lot of difference between carrying a gun on a belt and wearing fairly normal clothes and,  as mentioned here, police walking down Strand Street carry assault rifle and wearing a quick-draw six-shooter on their thigh like John Wayne.

 

Why would you think they aren't worried about response times?

[Auntie Depressant]

8 minutes ago, Derek Flint said:

I'm a former practitioner who retains currency of knowledge through my current professional interests l. We've gone through what current professional doctrine says and the context. How you interpret that insight is up to you 

I have no problem whatsoever with your insight. It’s your gung-ho attitude and supercilious response, to what is obviously, a concerning situation for many, that I take issue with. 

[Derek Flint]

53 minutes ago, Beelzebub3 said:

In your opinion as an ex-copper, of course you are going to say that, maybe others disagree with your opinion and think they are now out of touch with the public, that is my opinion from a law abiding person on the street. I have yet to hear of a shooting on the Island and very much doubt that if someone had the desire to carry out such an atrocity the armed unit would not be much use as the chances are they would be too late to the event as anything taking place would have already happened, I am sure a risk assessment of that happening would be very remote. Derek I do think you need to retire away from the force as your opinion is to biased towards the Constabulary and you are unwilling to see any outsider's point of view.

ITS

NOT

ABOUT

SHOOTINGS!

 

And thanks for the feedback, but I retired in 2017. I now teach and research policing. 

My opinion doesn't matter. I've explained the doctrine. If you don't like it then that's absolutely fine, but its how it works

[Tinpot]

1 hour ago, Gladys said:

Are you happy to have armed police routinely around the place? 

Couldn’t care less.  What’s the issue?

It means that if needed they are good to go and doesn’t do any harm to anyone.  Anywhere else you travel you see them all the time so I don’t get what the drama is.

[immortalpuppet]

It’s about response times…

 

to a dog barking in a park

to a pisshead with a bottle 

to a middle aged (suspected) drugs bust

to an unhinged type with an axe

to a gaming offices raid

Minutes matter

[WTF]

1 hour ago, Gladys said:

Are you happy to have armed police routinely around the place? 

if it's the right police yes,  but not for every unhinged bullied at school out for revenge i have a badge judge dredd wannabe copper that wants to impose their ego on people for existing.

Edited Sunday at 11:06 AM by WTF

[Johnny F]

From a public relations point of view of this Costa situation, the police have shot themselves in the foot, pardon the pun.

Derek I really appreciate your input on this forum please continue.

The response time argument is valid but trying to reduce it from 'an hour' or whatever you suggested down to 'immediate' is an overreaction. If the normal response time is an hour then it really needs shortening and I'm sure there are ways of doing that without actually resorting to guns on hips at all times.

Derek you mention Risk Assessments and threat assessment, as anyone who regularly carries out risk assessments will know, they are opinion based and each person filling out a risk assessment will have a different opinion on the hazard/risk level. Risk assessments aren't an exact science !

As you have mentioned legal gun ownership and the prevalence and type of them on the island, what is your opinion on the ownership of handguns ?  In my view as a firearms certificate holder, hunting rifles and shotguns have a logical and morally justifiable position in society.

[P.K.]

1 hour ago, Two-lane said:

 

 

Looks like Guardia Civil to me i.e. armed and scruffy...

[thommo2010]

41 minutes ago, Johnny F said:

From a public relations point of view of this Costa situation, the police have shot themselves in the foot, pardon the pun.

Derek I really appreciate your input on this forum please continue.

The response time argument is valid but trying to reduce it from 'an hour' or whatever you suggested down to 'immediate' is an overreaction. If the normal response time is an hour then it really needs shortening and I'm sure there are ways of doing that without actually resorting to guns on hips at all times.

Derek you mention Risk Assessments and threat assessment, as anyone who regularly carries out risk assessments will know, they are opinion based and each person filling out a risk assessment will have a different opinion on the hazard/risk level. Risk assessments aren't an exact science !

As you have mentioned legal gun ownership and the prevalence and type of them on the island, what is your opinion on the ownership of handguns ?  In my view as a firearms certificate holder, hunting rifles and shotguns have a logical and morally justifiable position in society.

What situation? Police officers went for a coffee and its somehow ended up with about 6 people on an Internet forum arguing about it 😆 

[Tinpot]

I keep coming back here in the hope that someone will have explained what the actual issue is, but am still waiting.

I am genuinely baffled by some of the comments and have no idea why people see a couple of police officers buying a coffee while armed as something worth stressing about.

Someone is going to have to help me out because I don’t get it.  It happens all over the world everyday and I don’t even think is that new or unusual over here is it?

[Derek Flint]

1 hour ago, Auntie Depressant said:

I have no problem whatsoever with your insight. It’s your gung-ho attitude and supercilious response, to what is obviously, a concerning situation for many, that I take issue with. 

Fella, it's MF. I've had worse! I don't post as a cop and the official line. I'm sorry that you feel some hurt and distress to that.

1 hour ago, immortalpuppet said:

It’s about response times…

 

to a dog barking in a park

to a pisshead with a bottle 

to a middle aged (suspected) drugs bust

to an unhinged type with an axe

to a gaming offices raid

Minutes matter

If the dog is about to rip the ass off someone 

If the pisshead with a bottle is about to stick it in someone

If the drugs bust has an unknown threat level

If the unhinged one is about to stave someone's head in

Gaming office - no idea.

Yes, minutes matter

 

[wrighty]

Doesn’t faze me that there might be armed police walking about the place - I’m used to it from other places, and I’m a good guy so unlikely to get shot by one. 
 

I don’t think it’s a good idea though. It could lead to a literal arms race where drug dealers or whatever feel the need to tool up as the police are armed. And this means a higher likelihood of shootings, innocents getting caught in the crossfire, and folk getting shot for owning a Nerf gun. 
 

If I made the rules, which I don’t unfortunately, our police would all be Taser trained, and leave the guns at the station for when they’re actually called for.