Armed Police - Casually strolling

[A fool and his money.....]

I think it's a good thing Flinty wasn't here in the 80's. God knows what his response to the drunken scrap and mayhem that most towns saw every weekend.

We'd probably still be under martial law to this day.

[Passing Time]

1 hour ago, A fool and his money..... said:

I think it's a good thing Flinty wasn't here in the 80's. God knows what his response to the drunken scrap and mayhem that most towns saw every weekend.

We'd probably still be under martial law to this day.

Not really, we’d all have been shot…

[Derek Flint]

7 hours ago, P.K. said:

@Derek Flint

Excuse me Derek but just how many Police Inspectors have experience in managing a major terrorist bomb outrage with multiple casualties? Sure you game these things in training but it's not the same as the real thing because you simply don't have the pressures. And the pressures are enormous. As the poor sod found out.

If, as you say, he wasn't the right bloke for the task then the hierarchy who put him there presumably suffered the consequences...?

Force incident Managers, especually in the metropolitan areas should be trained.and capable. The lack of drilling, simulation and regular exercises is a problem. GMP have.been found wanting before. HH Justice Teague's report into Op Shire and the shooting of Anthony Grainger is worth a read

[Derek Flint]

7 hours ago, Shake me up Judy said:

Guns are only really effective against armed criminals. In normal day to day civilian policing they're practically useless because you can't use them. Tasers are a much more useful active deterrent. That and the threat of real and meaningful physical intervention. If the time comes when the cops need to be armed on the IOM then that will be the time to hand out the guns and ammo. Until then it's an over-specification, inappropriate, disproportionate, and plain bad policing. 

It's a contingency. Just like a taser, baton, pava and armour 

7 hours ago, StCatherine said:

The problem as I see it is that the great Manx public have almost as much respect for the police as they do for Alf. All these bully boy tactics are not exactly doing wonders for community buy in which is what they need to police effectively. 

Public confidence has always been historically higher on the IOM

7 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

The Police Facebook post is pretty similar to what we've seen from other such 'operations':

Armed Police and police negotiators responded to an incident in Ramsey in the early hours of Sunday 15th September, the details of the incident are under investigation and the police cannot comment at this stage. A male was detained by armed officers after surrendering himself to them around 09:30am in the area of Albert Street, Ramsey. Police would like to reassure the public that this was an isolated incident and the public are not at risk. Additionally they would like to reassure the public that the use of armed officers was necessary, that the male was not injured during the arrest and is currently safe and well.

The fact they feel compelled to tell us "the use of armed officers was necessary" is telling.   Though given that Our Man Flint assures us that it is necessary in every possible situation ("You never know when someone being issued a parking ticket might kick off"; "That elderly tourist asking the way to Peel Castle might really be a terrorist"), it doesn't tell us much about what actually happened.  There's no suggestion that there is any third party involvement, so you wonder if the arrested male was any danger to anyone, except possibly himself.

The trouble is we've seen similar incidents before, where the charges that arose in the end amounted (at best) to "someone being a bit mouthy".  So we're entitled to be a bit cynical.  Maybe it will turn out to be justified and it's too soon to make a final judgement, but people are going to sceptical for the moment.

6 hours ago, cissolt said:

Perhaps if they told us the justification for sending in an armed response team to the incident?  This is becoming a daily occurrence, with no justification from the police.  

It's only a matter of time before an unwarranted discharge.

 

Read the criteria for deployment in APP armed policing on the College of Policing website.

 

5 hours ago, A fool and his money..... said:

Quite. They'd be better off training officers in how to approach situations involving mental health or drink or substance abuse. None of these situations need guns.

Criminals on the island do not use guns for a very simple reason - because they don't need to. 

It would be a very good idea for us to try and keep it that way. I'm not sure reenacting the final scenes from the Blues Brothers every time someone kicks off is the best way to do that.

I'm bloody certain requiring us to get used to seeing coppers walking around with guns is definitely not.

A really large part of the firearma training curriculum covers MH issues

2 hours ago, A fool and his money..... said:

I think it's a good thing Flinty wasn't here in the 80's. God knows what his response to the drunken scrap and mayhem that most towns saw every weekend.

We'd probably still be under martial law to this day.

Had a few of those in my day.

As seen in the recent Manchester Airport incident, hand to hand stuff can go ugly when having to also think about weapon retention.

[P.K.]

6 hours ago, Derek Flint said:

Force incident Managers, especually in the metropolitan areas should be trained.and capable. The lack of drilling, simulation and regular exercises is a problem. GMP have.been found wanting before. HH Justice Teague's report into Op Shire and the shooting of Anthony Grainger is worth a read

But my point still stands.

If tĥe officer lumbered with the job wasn't up to it then those who put him there are culpable.

So did they take any responsibility for what was quite an up-fuck?

[Derek Flint]

1 hour ago, P.K. said:

But my point still stands.

If tĥe officer lumbered with the job wasn't up to it then those who put him there are culpable.

So did they take any responsibility for what was quite an up-fuck?

I agree. 

Ian Hopkins did resign but that was over dicky crime figures 

[Tinpot]

28 minutes ago, Derek Flint said:

 

Ian Hopkins did resign but that was over dicky crime figures 

What’s “dicky crime”?

Sound awful.  I am glad I have never been subjected to such things.

[Derek Flint]

5 minutes ago, Tinpot said:

What’s “dicky crime”?

Sound awful.  I am glad I have never been subjected to such things.

It's a technical term for under-recording to the tune of about 90,000 offences!

[Jarndyce]

29 minutes ago, Tinpot said:

What’s “dicky crime”?

One of the less famous Diddymen, shurely…

[WTF]

42 minutes ago, Tinpot said:

What’s “dicky crime”?

 

rape ?

[Andy Onchan]

Something has happened in the very recent past for the sudden need for weapons to be carried by our police.

The current threat level for UK & NI according to MI5 is "Substantial".  https://www.mi5.gov.uk/threats-and-advice/terrorism-threat-levels

I can only assume that we have either been brought into the UK fold or that there is a specific threat to IOM.

And does the definition of "policing by consent" mean anything these days?: 
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/policing-by-consent/definition-of-policing-by-consent

Edited Monday at 09:14 AM by Andy Onchan

[RecklessAbandon]

1 hour ago, Andy Onchan said:

Something has happened in the very recent past for the sudden need for weapons to be carried by our police.

The current threat level for UK & NI according to MI5 is "Substantial".  https://www.mi5.gov.uk/threats-and-advice/terrorism-threat-levels

I can only assume that we have either been brought into the UK fold or that there is a specific threat to IOM.

And does the definition of "policing by consent" mean anything these days?: 
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/policing-by-consent/definition-of-policing-by-consent

To be fair, the UK threat level has always been "Substantial".

Have to justify the militarisation of the police and keeping the defence/security spending as high as possible (that way when retired Generals and Admirals walk through the revolving door from HQ to contracting for the military industrial complex there will always be plenty of wonga to spend on kit that is sub standard).

[RecklessAbandon]

@Derek Flint Off the top of your head, how many incidents per year do armed officers attend, and what percentage of those incidents turn out to actually require a firearm to be present in a meaningful way?

[Andy Onchan]

40 minutes ago, RecklessAbandon said:

To be fair, the UK threat level has always been "Substantial".

Indeed. So the question is, is there a specific threat to IOM? 

[RecklessAbandon]

2 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

Indeed. So the question is, is there a specific threat to IOM? 

90% of the planet couldn't find the IOM on a map if you put a big flashing neon sign over it.

So my guess is no.