Armed Police - Casually strolling

[Passing Time]

1 hour ago, Blade Runner said:

I went on a Stag night to Turkey in the 90s  and the Hookers in the bars we ended up with had shotguns........

You have that effect on people...

[A fool and his money.....]

3 hours ago, kevster said:

An ARV and officers can also do normal police work alongside armed duty.

Why do we pay for fire engines and associated costs, when they sit around doing fuck all most of the time?

Because sometimes we need to put fires out.

Shooting multiple people at the same time and within the hour - not so much.

[HeliX]

7 hours ago, Numbnuts said:

Surely it won’t really cost anything . They have the kit already , they do regular training for just the need of any emergency’s. The officers are already employed and doing there shifts as per normal. Any call outs or need for prolonged activity would be needed regardless and covered in normal staff levels and costings . Any overtime likewise. 

One would presume the additional cost of another type of regular training will be significant.

[A fool and his money.....]

Not to mention the fact we have far too many guns in the first place, whether they're sitting in the police station or being used to jump the queue in Costa.

It's the IOM FFS. One, maybe two guns at the most would do, with maybe three or four trained officers. Even then the chances of ever really needing any of them would be tiny.

Sending six armed coppers out every time someone gets pissed, or having them wandering around Costa armed is just a ridiculous overreaction to a non existent threat.

As I said before, criminals on the IOM don't use guns. Two reasons for this are; they're expensive, and they have absolutely no need to.

It's a shame the police couldn't show the same pragmatism.

[Anyone]

9 hours ago, Derek Flint said:

Terrorism wise, essentially yes. If the threat rises to severe or critical then it is publicly declared and there may be things the authorities want the public to do

I guess that happens a lot in Port St Mary, hotbed of terrorism I believe. String ‘em up , that’s the way to deal with .em. 

[Anyone]

9 hours ago, thommo2010 said:

Would a statement really do much good? 

We have seen it in this thread that despite your many years of operational policing, people with 0 experience seem to think they know better. If a statement was to be put out I would imagine it would go exactly the same way  

It helps if those who may not know better actually challenge those who think they do know better. I think it’s called accountability. Thing being those who think they know better might just be wrong , or if they have more power then corrupt and that is a bad thing , except for some who like that sort of power. 

[Anyone]

8 hours ago, Derek Flint said:

Its a minor operational change all told. 

They've been commercial for a.long time. Centrex and NPIA were the same

Bring back NPT!

Oh , you’ve gone all Line of Duty on us😂

[Anyone]

8 hours ago, Derek Flint said:

From what I hear he is a very sharp cookie. Low media profile but knows his onions and doing a g0od job

So he’s a chef then? 

[Anyone]

4 hours ago, daisy said:

But do we need cops walking into Coffee shops for refs fully armed?  

Look on the bright side. Armed cops enter a Costa , cuff the owner , happy MF people😂

[Numbnuts]

13 minutes ago, Anyone said:

Look on the bright side. Armed cops enter a Costa , cuff the owner , happy MF people😂

Now that would be justice ……..

[Derek Flint]

9 hours ago, Maugholdmafia said:

If the police won't make a statement, then an FOI should reveal if this is the case and also how much is it costing the taxpayer. At least £250k per annum?

No more than it ever has. Had a purpose built ARV since around 2003. Might have 2 now so I'd think an RPU 4x4 has been sacrificed for it

9 hours ago, cissolt said:

He does seem to have brought his counter terror playbook with him.

This seems like a good idea, citizens reviewing body cam footage:

https://www-bbc-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0qeq8n09kjo.amp?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQGsAEggA

It is a good idea. There's already stop search scrutiny groups in the UK. Helps with learning a lot

8 hours ago, RecklessAbandon said:

That only answers half my question - of those 12-14 deployment over a year period, how many of them required firearms to be deployed in a way that could not have been achieved without firearms?

Er, none.

The course to become a tactical firearms commander is hard. It may surprise you bit if we don't see a need for guns, they aren't deployed.

That isn't to say that an officer carrying a sidearm wont turn up to your shed burglary. That isnt a deployment 

8 hours ago, RecklessAbandon said:

Additional follow up question:

Were an armed unit is dispatched to a situation where a firearm is not required, how much more does this end up costing the tax payer compared to an unarmed unit?

Nothing. They are already on the operational strength

5 hours ago, daisy said:

But do we need cops walking into Coffee shops for refs fully armed?  

yes. See earlier on mode of carry.

Back in the 1990s a colleague left 2 handguns on the roof of the ARV by mistake and drove off. Handed in by a member of the public.

taking guns on and off leads to mistakes

5 hours ago, daisy said:

On a 'bus man's holiday'.... shipping in his UK chums.  

Dont think so. Gary imported more senior officers

5 hours ago, RecklessAbandon said:

Nice attempt but you failed to understand the question.

How much more does the armed response vehicle cost compared to a standard "panda car"?  How much extra does all the extra equipment cost (weapon, body armour, ammo, etc)?  How much does the additional liability insurance cost?  How much extra does the additional training cost?

In other words, why send a £4000 (number pulled out of thin air for analogy purposes) patrol rather than a £1000 unit for an issue that doesn't require an armed response?

Because they'd be sat on their arse otherwise. They are firearms trained but multi role. The training goes on regardless as an armed capability is required as per the APSTRA. 

And extra insurance liability? Armed ops are already covered in the scope of police work. This isn't something they've just started doing.

1 hour ago, A fool and his money..... said:

Because sometimes we need to put fires out.

Shooting multiple people at the same time and within the hour - not so much.

Let's look at that analogy. 

What happened before Summerland?

A foreseeable event if the intelligence on the materials had been read and acted upon.

an undertrained and under equipped fire service.

the rest you know. Theyve just bought new turntable ladders. Just in case.

1 hour ago, A fool and his money..... said:

Not to mention the fact we have far too many guns in the first place, whether they're sitting in the police station or being used to jump the queue in Costa.

It's the IOM FFS. One, maybe two guns at the most would do, with maybe three or four trained officers. Even then the chances of ever really needing any of them would be tiny.

Sending six armed coppers out every time someone gets pissed, or having them wandering around Costa armed is just a ridiculous overreaction to a non existent threat.

As I said before, criminals on the IOM don't use guns. Two reasons for this are; they're expensive, and they have absolutely no need to.

It's a shame the police couldn't show the same pragmatism.

3 or 4 eh?

Indulge me. 

George barricades himself in his house. He is holding his wife and children hostage and threatening to harm himself and them. He says he has a gun, and a number of knives in the house. No way of knowing.

Our four armed officers are called in. One had been on nights and the other is on their second rest day. After a couple of hours ab armed containment is put on. A trained negotiator is deployed.

After 12 hours, what happens next?

[slinkydevil]

These lads were just in the Spar getting some Crumpets, Lenor Fabric Conditioner (Spring Fresh) and a copy of OK! Magazine.

Place is going to shit.

[A fool and his money.....]

9 minutes ago, Derek Flint said:

 

George barricades himself in his house. He is holding his wife and children hostage and threatening to harm himself and them. He says he has a gun, and a number of knives in the house. No way of knowing.

Our four armed officers are called in. One had been on nights and the other is on their second rest day. After a couple of hours ab armed containment is put on. A trained negotiator is deployed.

After 12 hours, what happens next?

Why would you call four in? You've only got two guns remember and one's a spare.

What happens next? Do you wake up?

I remember a similar incident on the Pondy a good few years ago now. Fella loses the plot a bit, pissed up, probably drugged up too. Starts smashing the place up, wife and kids lock themselves in an upstairs bedroom.

Police turned up and he's shouting all sorts about what he's going to do. Saying he's got petrol and all the rest of it. A standoff ensues. What happens next?

One of the coppers know his brother, so gives him a ring. Brother comes round and before they could stop him, walks in through the front door and sticks one on his brother, pans him clean out. Turns around walks out and goes home.

[Derek Flint]

1 hour ago, A fool and his money..... said:

Why would you call four in? You've only got two guns remember and one's a spare.

What happens next? Do you wake up?

I remember a similar incident on the Pondy a good few years ago now. Fella loses the plot a bit, pissed up, probably drugged up too. Starts smashing the place up, wife and kids lock themselves in an upstairs bedroom.

Police turned up and he's shouting all sorts about what he's going to do. Saying he's got petrol and all the rest of it. A standoff ensues. What happens next?

One of the coppers know his brother, so gives him a ring. Brother comes round and before they could stop him, walks in through the front door and sticks one on his brother, pans him clean out. Turns around walks out and goes home.

And one can only imagine the inquest had that have had an adverse outcome....

It's not life on Mars any more

[Dirty Buggane]

Seeing as the island is no longer your residence and just a location to bring rich boys and their toys for a play, why are you on here defending some police chief's belief we are some how a down town corner of the Gaza strip. Or are you looking to milk the cash cow of ex police members being taken on as advisors and spin doctors. ?