Armed Police - Casually strolling

[A fool and his money.....]

Anyone who thinks we need any kind of armed police presence on the island is either a fantasist or a bloody idiot.

[Derek Flint]

55 minutes ago, Numbnuts said:

Sorry Derek , you’ve let yourself down with your comments. I have the greatest respect for our  police but nothing can justify that situation  and your inane comments don’t help. If there was any threat needing them to carry guns into Costa surely they wouldn’t be ordering coffee. I presume they have secure storage in there transport. If so then they should have left the guns there . Or one stayed in the vehicle to stay with them. I can think of no justification of that situation despite your handbook and rules nonsense. Common sense needed it seems from our constabulary or at least from these officers. My guess is they had a bit of , look at us cool coppers with guns syndrome .  

Nothing inane about it. Having been a practitioner, I understand it. I also understand things like prescribed mode of carrying arms.

There is a rule book, and it has been crafted from some very hard lessons.

You put your gun in the holster at the start of your shift. You take it out at the end unless it is needed. Nothing to do about looking 'hard' or 'cool'. 

There's been a lot of research on this sort of stuff over the years. The practices are evidence based, not man-in-costa based

[Derek Flint]

59 minutes ago, Maugholdmafia said:

Im not saying armed police dont have the right to a coffee break, they are human afterall.

More so the issue lies with their deployment. There has obviously been a shift in police deployment policy here as over the last year they seem to always be on patrol with or without an incident to attend to. 

This appears to have taken place without the public being notified either by our Home Affairs Minister or Chief Constable. Therefore to many of us plebs it can be alarming to see armed police. 

This also raises the question of what do these police do when there is not an armed incident to attend to? I highly doubt they are being sent to noise complaints, ect.

A couple of weeks ago, I saw them walking down strand street with Assault rifles / carbines. Really? You never see PC Griffith or Paddy on foot patrol anymore. Replaced by big macho hardmen with egos requiring boosting by shoppers looking at them in their big body armour. I saw upset small children being cuddled by their mums at the site of them. Really was not appropriate for Douglas town centre.
 

So then either there are less police available to carry out neighbourhood policing duties or the Manx taxpayer is paying extra money to fund the constant deployment of an armed unit.

Therefore if this is the case that more tax payers money is being spent on funding a full time armed unit and I think this should be public knowledge either by press release or by FOI.

Many of us take great pride in having a safe island where the chances of having a terrorist or mental health emergency knife attack are seen as impossible, and we dont like the suggestion that it could happen and therefore requires a just in case police prescense. We dont want to be like the UK. Issues like this is what always made the Isle of Man a special place to live, and the idea of it feels under threat when you see armed police strolling about. 

Furthermore, I strongly believe the more armed police are called to respond to incidents, the higher the chance of a police shooting taking place. Statistically, this is a certainty. It may only be a 0.5% chance but it still increases the risk. 
 

Hope this acts as a message to the Police Officers and their supporters browsing this forum, to understand the point of view of those who are against the deployment of armed police constantly.

Griff and Paddy have retired.

These cops you see aren't 'deployed'. Read the stuff I've highlighted. 

[Derek Flint]

8 minutes ago, A fool and his money..... said:

Anyone who thinks we need any kind of armed police presence on the island is either a fantasist or a bloody idiot.

The APSTRA and professional experience and also the management of threat and risk says otherwise.

[Derek Flint]

39 minutes ago, thommo2010 said:

The same people moaning about this are the ones that would be complaining if the armed police took up to an hour to attend an incident. 

This

34 minutes ago, Maugholdmafia said:

And this is an example of the arrogant attitude which is eroding the Manx publics respect of the police. 

Not this

[TheTeapot]

Just now, Derek Flint said:

The APSTRA and professional experience and also the management of threat and risk says otherwise.

Have you considered that the APSTRA is wrong? That the threat and risk has been miscalculated?

 

 

[cissolt]

It's justification for the ever increasing spending on the police. 

Take the border force idea as an example, brand new search building with 3-4 search bays, manned by police.  Completely unnecessary and used to create an illusion of a security risk.

No drugs or guns have ever been found smuggled off the island, not even when it was happening regularly during the troubles.

Pure posturing by a power mad home affairs department, we saw just how hungry for power the police were during COVID.

 

[A fool and his money.....]

5 minutes ago, Derek Flint said:

The APSTRA and professional experience and also the management of threat and risk says otherwise.

Professional experience? On the IOM? How many shots have they ever fired in anger here?

[Barlow]

48 minutes ago, thommo2010 said:

The same people moaning about this are the ones that would be complaining if the armed police took up to an hour to attend an incident. 

Except no they are not the same people, or any people at all. That phrase has just come out of the police canteen. You are just demonstarting an 'us and them' mindset. Maybe ok for anywhere else but I don't think that sits well on Isle of Man.

[Derek Flint]

8 minutes ago, TheTeapot said:

Have you considered that the APSTRA is wrong? That the threat and risk has been miscalculated?

 

 

No, because I've previously written a couple, it is a complex document and it has to be evidence-based.

 

7 minutes ago, cissolt said:

It's justification for the ever increasing spending on the police. 

Take the border force idea as an example, brand new search building with 3-4 search bays, manned by police.  Completely unnecessary and used to create an illusion of a security risk.

No drugs or guns have ever been found smuggled off the island, not even when it was happening regularly during the troubles.

Pure posturing by a power mad home affairs department, we saw just how hungry for power the police were during COVID.

 

I think the new bays are for IOM Customs?

4 minutes ago, A fool and his money..... said:

Professional experience? On the IOM? How many shots have they ever fired in anger here?

Deployment of armed officers is not about guns, or firing shots, or even being shot at

[Derek Flint]

1 minute ago, Barlow said:

Except no they are not the same people, or any people at all. That phrase has just come out of the police canteen. You are just demonstarting an 'us and them' mindset. Maybe ok for anywhere else but I don't think that sits well on Isle of Man.

If it is any comfort, the Scots were outraged about a standing authority armed carry some years ago. 

 

[Two-lane]

6 minutes ago, Derek Flint said:

Deployment of armed officers is not about guns

"it is about..."  -  the rest of you can complete the sentence.

[A fool and his money.....]

4 minutes ago, Derek Flint said:

Deployment of armed officers is not about guns, or firing shots, or even being shot at

We don't need them here, it's that simple. I don't care how you dress it up.

One of the ever decreasing list of benefits of living on the island is its safety.

If you don't go looking for trouble, it's extremely unlikely that it will find you.

It is exactly no safer with the presence of armed police, we simply don't need them.

[Kopek]

Simple solution, either take the guns off , store securely and go for a coffee......or.......

Get someone to bring the coffees to the rest room.

If they are meeting a boat with a threat onboard, it's not as though the boat is going to creep in behind their  backs???

[Derek Flint]

6 minutes ago, Two-lane said:

"it is about..."  -  the rest of you can complete the sentence.

I'll do it for you.

The assessment of threat and risk and the lawful and proportionate use of force as may be accorded under the State's positive obligation to protect life under Article 2 of the convention on Human Rights

Edited Saturday at 11:59 AM by Derek Flint