The close borders mentals are planning a take over!

[Gladys]

7 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

That's what has always puzzled me.  If you look at the photographs of the cash seized in an Annex to last year's Chief Constable's Report ("Operation Artemis"), you'll see that nearly all of them appear to be Manx notes (mainly £20s).  You'd think such quantities (they seized nearly a quarter of a million) would be easy to spot given few shops will take them.

And banks in the UK would surely be suspicious of a large quantity of Manx notes.  

I get that purchasing of high value items is one way of moving the value, but as you say it does seem that actual cash (and I mean actual cash) is being moved. Even if it can be spent or converted in the UK, how does it get back here, which is the only place it has value? 

[Fred the shred]

The cash could be in English notes.

[Alanbellend]

9 hours ago, Gladys said:

Which is what I said in the second para.  

Oh yes. The second paragraph you added as an edit after I’d replied to it. 

[Gladys]

8 hours ago, Fred the shred said:

The cash could be in English notes.

If you look at Roger's link, it is both Manx and English notes, and in large volumes.  

I cannot remember the last time I got an English note here other than at the Sea Terminal ATM.  So, serious amounts of drugs are being purchased here using English notes.  How is that?  

For the Manx notes, how do they process them once they get the cash to the UK? That's the question. 

[Gladys]

2 minutes ago, Alanbellend said:

Oh yes. The second paragraph you added as an edit after I’d replied to it. 

No, it was immediately I had posted, but it doesn't actually matter because what we are talking about is cash. 

[Alanbellend]

8 hours ago, Fred the shred said:

The cash could be in English notes.

This is one of the largest and it was £250K in cash which isn’t a lot of cash really. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-isle-of-man-64474035

The picture is showing English £50 notes in sealed bags and a clump of loose Manx tenners. The cash has clearly been sorted separately between UK and IOM notes. If 20-30% of that £250K was Manx notes then it would be relatively easy to use it to fund your next drugs holiday to the IOM or pay your Manx couriers with. As long as you don’t take a high % of Manx notes in the mix it wouldn’t be a problem. A lot of the unseen stuff will be goods going back: watches, jewelry, high value cars etc bought for cash here and then shipped back and sold in the UK. Why get caught handling cash? Most laundering operations accept that they’re going to lose 20% placing the cash anyway so as long as the ratio of Manx to English notes isn’t too high it wouldn’t be a problem and as I said above the proportion of Manx cash probably just goes back to pay their Manx expenses with.

Edited Monday at 06:53 AM by Alanbellend

[Roger Mexico]

1 hour ago, Gladys said:

If you look at Roger's link, it is both Manx and English notes, and in large volumes.  

I cannot remember the last time I got an English note here other than at the Sea Terminal ATM.  So, serious amounts of drugs are being purchased here using English notes.  How is that?  

For the Manx notes, how do they process them once they get the cash to the UK? That's the question. 

The really interesting thing is that it's mainly in Manx though.  Look at the picture on page 7[1], there's  £77,000 there in Manx £20 notes and only £18,000 in English ones.  I suspect 80% might be a good estimate from the other pictures as well.

I perhaps use cash more than you, but I see English notes all the time, though they're very much the minority.  As well as the ATMs at the Sea Terminal and the Airport, English notes are available from banks and it's fairly common still for people to ask for them if they're going across.  I wonder if it's possible you might get a discount for buying drugs with English cash rather than Manx, which would mean that purchasers might hoard English notes or make an effort to get some.

But as you say the real question is what happens to all those Manx notes when they get to the UK.

 

[1]  Other photos, like the one the BBC took, tend to show the money as it was seized, so what is on the top of the pile is fairly random or misleading.

[trench12]

Like god cash moves in mysterious ways…..chip chop notes, hawala banking , black market peso exchange

 

I had a thirty plus career in law enforcement9some would say good career), drugs, tobacco generate huge amounts of cash and ‘getting rid’ of it is a major challenge to the bad guys. We found that one organisation resorted to filling biscuit tins and burying in ‘the garden’ for retreival’

on one occasion whilst at Gatwick a vey nice middle aged well spoken individual was stopped in bound from Brussels with approx £50 000 news notes, her onward1 journey was by coach to stansted and then to Dublin. Euro zone to eurozone.  And when stopped she had been doing this journey weekly for about 3 months!

[Gladys]

12 minutes ago, trench12 said:

Like god cash moves in mysterious ways…..chip chop notes, hawala banking , black market peso exchange

 

I had a thirty plus career in law enforcement9some would say good career), drugs, tobacco generate huge amounts of cash and ‘getting rid’ of it is a major challenge to the bad guys. We found that one organisation resorted to filling biscuit tins and burying in ‘the garden’ for retreival’

on one occasion whilst at Gatwick a vey nice middle aged well spoken individual was stopped in bound from Brussels with approx £50 000 news notes, her onward1 journey was by coach to stansted and then to Dublin. Euro zone to eurozone.  And when stopped she had been doing this journey weekly for about 3 months!

It is a lot easier 'processing' recognised hard currency notes than Manx ones, I suspect.  Some of the normal channels may not refuse to accept them as potentially being fakes, or a non-convertible currency.  

But as you say, money launderers move in mysterious ways their wonders to perform. 

[cissolt]

15 hours ago, John Wright said:

 

Based on my own experiences of representing detained or charged people as duty advocate at both police stations and courts I’d say much of both inbound and out bound detection is intelligence led, whether that’s Manx, Merseyside, North Wales, or Lancashire individually or collaboratively.

And some of it, especially inbound, is not just months but years of patient observing, putting cases together, looking at coincidences, travel patterns, analysing bank accounts, and interrogating seized phones.

And never forget the dogs on the car deck and at baggage claim.

Outbound, it’s more local knowledge, watching travel patterns, related persons.

I don’t think the new facilities will result in more “random” stops and searches. The authorities have to have reasons. It’s more a case of the searches being protected from the elements or prying eyes.

So, inbound it’s the vast majority which are intelligence led, rather than happenstance.

Similarly, out bound, 90% cash due to intelligence. Next to nothing random.

Ive dealt with one drug “export” case in 40+ years. And never a firearm, in or out.

Thanks John, that confirms my suspicion that the searches and under vehicle checks have zero impact on crime on the island. 

Which makes not only the current searches of hundreds of vehicles a week redundant and the expansion of the search bays even more baffling. 

We need to spend the money in the right places, not empire building by home affairs.

[Lxxx]

This is clearly being driven by the UK and their drive for national ID cards and more stringent checks to eventually end up with a CBDC. All in the public domain. The island as part of the common travel area just has to get with the programme, so to speak, irrespective of whether we need it or not. 

[John Wright]

49 minutes ago, cissolt said:

Thanks John, that confirms my suspicion that the searches and under vehicle checks have zero impact on crime on the island. 

Which makes not only the current searches of hundreds of vehicles a week redundant and the expansion of the search bays even more baffling. 

We need to spend the money in the right places, not empire building by home affairs.

I know I’m tempting fate, but it’s 10 years since I’ve been pulled for a search in any port served by the SPco.

I travel a lot. I rarely see cars pulled over in Douglas or in Heysham.

Is your “hundreds of vehicles a week” a tad over the top? A bit of Mr Toad’s hyperbowl?

Last time it was attempted they gave up. It was Liverpool on the floating road down to the landing stage. There were no notices that it was a maritime security zone, under the relevant legislation, and that there might be searches. The guy wanting to search was not in any uniform, didn’t have a badge or any form of ID. I asked for his ID and warrant or authority. He should have had 2 out of the three. His response was to use his walkie talkie to tell someone I was refusing to be searched. I then spoke with the guy at the other end of the walkie talkie, explained I wasn’t refusing, but wanted to be certain that the guy actually was authorised, I pointed out that the lack of notices or ID and authority made attempted searches illegal. He agreed. 

The notices are now in place and they also have lanyards with ID/authority. So not something I’ll be repeating.

[HelmutX]

Well, I get searched 1/2 the time, but I'm in a private van - empty on way out, as usual. However, a few years back, the monkeys did have a look and dislodged the side door cable which I did not discover until I was well across. Now, I just keep the doors locked until I, me, myself, open the door. I believe it G4S who are the security functionj..???

That being said, I've never had any issues with them, other than the bozo who put me in the wrong line last time.... ManExec. The one who noticed was more than helpful... and a good sailing it was.

On another note - what contingencies do they have for EVs? Sorta scary considering the potential issues. I understand some ferries won't allow them on....

[John Wright]

It’s one of the moments of light relief at the police station. I’m seeing someone who has been arrested with £500 and are being asked to explain. I probably have more, in sterling notes in my wallet, and think that they’d better not search me.

[Utah 01]

3 hours ago, Alanbellend said:

Most laundering operations accept that they’re going to lose 20% placing the cash anyway so as long as the ratio of Manx to English notes isn’t too high it wouldn’t be a problem and as I said above the proportion of Manx cash probably just goes back to pay their Manx expenses with.

You certainly appear to have extensive knowledge of 'the operation'; first-hand knowledge or have you 'read about it somewhere'?