The close borders mentals are planning a take over!

[2112]

9 minutes ago, Fred the shred said:

Great idea we have no idea who is coming into our Island and there should be some control, the world is changing it is a very dangerous place.    How did those 100 Chinese get work permits I bet their background was not investigated and where are they now ?

As a result of political expediency, islanders will be punished, and lives made as difficult as can be, when wishing to travel to and from the island. Sadly there will be some power crazy jobsworths within the police force, desperately wanting to make the first arrest. 

[Alanbellend]

1 minute ago, 2112 said:

As a result of political expediency, islanders will be punished, and lives made as difficult as can be, when wishing to travel to and from the island. Sadly there will be some power crazy jobsworths within the police force, desperately wanting to make the first arrest. 

The police have wanted this ever since covid which was the only time Gary Roberts started actually catching drug dealers by having people rifle through packages at the Post Office HQ every day as that was the only way drugs could come in. The border closure as a result of the pandemic was the only time their useless, lazy assed, policing ever had any effect. So now they seem to want us all to have our liberties restricted to make their jobs easier. 

No doubt there will be an Island wide 30 mph speed limit soon so that their road traffic team also have to do sod all to stop accidents. 

[Derek Flint]

 

32 minutes ago, Alanbellend said:

The police have wanted this ever since covid which was the only time Gary Roberts started actually catching drug dealers by having people rifle through packages at the Post Office HQ every day as that was the only way drugs could come in. The border closure as a result of the pandemic was the only time their useless, lazy assed, policing ever had any effect. So now they seem to want us all to have our liberties restricted to make their jobs easier. 

No doubt there will be an Island wide 30 mph speed limit soon so that their road traffic team also have to do sod all to stop accidents. 

Intercepts at the post office via dog detection had been going on long before covid. 

The 40mph limit worked in Covid so maybe that is fast enough? 30 might be a bit extreme?

[Alanbellend]

3 minutes ago, Derek Flint said:

The 40mph limit worked in Covid so maybe that is fast enough? 30 might be a bit extreme?

Do you still own the Porsche? 

[Derek Flint]

1 hour ago, Alanbellend said:

Do you still own the Porsche? 

Yes. 

[asitis]

8 hours ago, TheTeapot said:

It's not really in keeping with the spirit of a common travel area. 

This in itself is a bit farcical, as there has never been more restrictions on travel to the UK by any means other than a commercial airline, which even then you have to have ID to use and subject yourself to background search scrutiny, both when booking and physically . The restrictions on private travel to the UK by air, amount to in some cases to two days notice and a sheaf of form filling to various authorities. To me the farce of it all (no gammon involved) is the UK take in rafts (literally) of people who are totally unknown, and then house them throughout the UK without blinking an eye, whilst the rest of us are subject to every restriction known to man. There is something not thought through about the whole thing CTA is in my opinion something of a misnomer !

[Beelzebub3]

4 minutes ago, asitis said:

This in itself is a bit farcical, as there has never been more restrictions on travel to the UK by any means other than a commercial airline, which even then you have to have ID to use and subject yourself to background search scrutiny, both when booking and physically . The restrictions on private travel to the UK by air, amount to in some cases to two days notice and a sheaf of form filling to various authorities. To me the farce of it all (no gammon involved) is the UK take in rafts (literally) of people who are totally unknown, and then house them throughout the UK without blinking an eye, whilst the rest of us are subject to every restriction known to man. There is something not thought through about the whole thing CTA is in my opinion something of a misnomer !

I recently travelled Belfast to Birkenhead return with a car + one passenger and neither of us were asked at anytime to produce ID. We were asked for a surname and went straight through at Belfast same on the return.

[asitis]

6 minutes ago, Beelzebub3 said:

I recently travelled Belfast to Birkenhead return with a car + one passenger and neither of us were asked at anytime to produce ID. We were asked for a surname and went straight through at Belfast same on the return.

Well a bit slack one might feel, but I assume background checks had already been done, my post really was concerning the geographical and political position of the Isle of Man !

[Shake me up Judy]

8 hours ago, Derek Flint said:

 

Intercepts at the post office via dog detection had been going on long before covid. 

The 40mph limit worked in Covid so maybe that is fast enough? 30 might be a bit extreme?

All parcel post has been intercepted for years. Not just using dog detection either. They're not just looking for drugs. All covered under the Official Secrets Act too.

[Sceptic]

It’s another thing that we as Manx people will all now have to put up with as a result of the Chinese scammers blackening our international reputation. Not that we ever have any intention of dealing with the Chinese scammers, or the directors or managers in the companies that employed and managed them. They will all get off the hook with our useless GSC that just wants it all to go away. But now the Manx public has to have their faces scanned by the IOM police state when we get off the boat and be issued with a national ID card because of so-called people trafficking that government knew was going on but turned a blind eye to. Perhaps Manx people should just be confined to their homes in future  and only let out when a safe warning signal is blasted out?

[Ringy Rose]

1 hour ago, asitis said:

There is something not thought through about the whole thing CTA is in my opinion something of a misnomer !

The CTA only applies to citizens of the UK, IOM, CI and Ireland.

There is more monitoring than you’d think. I’ve been on the express coach from Belfast to Dublin when it was pulled over by the Gardaí and several people were marched off it got not having the correct paperwork. 

The Gardaí at Dublin Airport make you confirm you’re eligible for the CTA by showing your passport or ID.

General aviation in the UK has a tough inspection regime because it’s the most common way of smuggling people into the UK. The people on small boats aren’t being smuggled into the UK, they’re fairly blatantly trying to get to the UK to claim asylum, and once they have claimed asylum they are subject to monitoring. I don’t know whether fishing vessels, etc, are subject to similar form filling as general aviation but I think they are.

People entering the CTA are checked by the Border Force or the Gardaí when they first enter it. So if we don’t know who is coming here it don’t matter from an immigration point of view, anyone who makes it here is allowed to be here.

There are elements in government who do want more powers to check people coming in. The Covid border checks were very very close to becoming permanent and would have done if the last government had had time to sort it. The current government moved away from it again due to cost. Because here’s the thing- border staff are expensive.

 

[Out of the blue]

My default position is that free movement without interference and mandatory checks within the CTA should be maintained. Intelligence led policing of the borders is and will continue to be the most important safeguard. Increase this capacity, along with discreet, covert ANPR and facial recognition if necessary.

If our government get involved with implementing border checks, you can expect further ineffective costly bureaucracy, increased delays and inconvenience. You only have to look at the thankfully now defunct Covid arrangements at the steam packet to see that invisible, seamless and efficient are not in their lexicon. 

[Albert Tatlock]

Going by the IOM news link, so far these proposals seem to be about detecting known criminals coming into the island, and assessing identity when using public services.

So they are implying that the cameras will only face 'out to sea' and will not store and build up a history of movement data. And they are also implying that they are not particularly good at checking identity when people use public services. I can obviously some see some of the positives, such as stopping 'health tourism' on the island, where people who haven't been resident for years use someone else's address to get none A&E treatments and stopping known drug dealers at the sea-terminal. 

But if these issues were to be dealt with by the issuing of Manx ID cards, I think the main problem that local people (including myself) will have with this idea - is with the police force being the primary group pushing for the introduction of ID cards.

While concerns about criminal activities such as drug trafficking, immigration abuses, and organised crime are valid, introducing ID cards for all island residents poses significant risks that may outweigh the so called benefits. One of the primary dangers is the potential erosion of privacy and civil liberties. A government-issued ID card system would mean the centralisation of personal data, allowing for increased surveillance of residents. This creates the risk of abuse, especially if the police - who are heavily advocating for the system - gain too much control over who is monitored and how the data is used. With no clear limits, such a system could lead to disproportionate targeting of certain groups, such as immigrants or low-income residents, based on racial or socioeconomic profiling. This is particularly concerning in small, closely-knit communities such as the island where the misuse of power would likely go unnoticed or unchallenged.

Granting the police access to a centralised ID system could also lead to increased surveillance and profiling, where residents are routinely monitored, even when they haven't committed any crime. The potential for abuse is heightened, as the police may use ID checks to harass or intimidate residents, blurring the line between law enforcement and civil rights violations.

We have had at least two recent public trials regarding the misuse of data by employees of the police in one year. Similar systems in other countries have resulted in similar unintended consequences. For instance, India's system and the UK's failed national ID card project both saw large data breaches and implementation problems, leaving people vulnerable to identity theft and exclusion from essential services.

On this island, such a system could create further divides, making it harder for vulnerable groups to access public services or housing. Rather than increasing security, a mandatory ID system risks further undermining the already weakened trust between the government, the police and the public here, while infringing on the civil liberties that a democracy such as the Isle of Man is supposed to seek to protect.

Given the CTA, introducing ID cards here is comparable to London issuing ID cards to assess and keep out the bad guys from Birmingham. If people are using our system to get around a UK visa system, then just change the rules/law.

And how will this affect tourism?

And then of course there's the little matter of the cost, which will be in the order of at least £20M (probably much more) here IMO, given my IT experience of large complex centralised systems.

So yes to cameras pointing out to sea, yes to proving who you are when signing up to use public services, but no to Manx ID cards.

This gung-ho attitude of the police here needs to be restrained and they should get back to community policing without guns. 

[x-in-man]

9 hours ago, Derek Flint said:

 

 

The 40mph limit worked in Covid

Did it?

Facts and figures?

 

[RoundTheCourse]

10 hours ago, slinkydevil said:

“Papiere, Bitte”

Reopen Knockaloe camp!