Volunteers to clean up the island

[The Bastard]

Just now, FANDL said:

According to Wheeler he simply approached them to ask for the paint code so that it was done to standard in the right colour and they threatened to take him to court from there. Somewhat amusingly the newspaper article contains the following quote:

DoI maintenance manager Alan Hardinge replied on November 23 saying that the work would be done that weekend. Mr Hardinge wrote: ’I do appreciate that this work has taken longer than anticipated. However, we have followed the correct procurement procedures to engage a suitably qualified contractor.’

Presumably after a long and arduous procurement process that would be a contractor who had a paint brush and who had an employee who knew how to use a paintbrush? Also did they apply the same arduous assessment process on the volunteers who painted the railings on Marine Drive mentioned in the original news story?

This is exactly why nobody volunteers as government does not want free labour doing work that it could be pretending to do. 

There are hundreds of volunteers at Beach Buddies. In one day, they could put in more person-hours of work than a single full-time worker could in months, and gain all the associated  benefits of massive teamwork. Again, it sounds like the mad bollardeer wasn't serious about volunteering, he was trying to shame them into doing the work. No public body would want a random just doing ad-hoc work on street furniture without agreeing a plan, and getting the appropriate H&S and insurance in place. That's not volunteering, that's a risk to the public and exactly what they need to be stepping in to stop happening. That's not where public volunteering programs deliver benefits, they work best where projects need a lot of labour, but where they'd never get budget (like picking rubbish off beaches). Volunteer programs couple all the benefits of planned objectives, safety and the right equipment to do the job with willing workers. They're not just about randoms having a go on their own.

[A fool and his money.....]

3 minutes ago, The Bastard said:

There are hundreds of volunteers at Beach Buddies. In one day, they could put in more person-hours of work than a single full-time worker could in months, and gain all the associated  benefits of massive teamwork. Again, it sounds like the mad bollardeer wasn't serious about volunteering, he was trying to shame them into doing the work. No public body would want a random just doing ad-hoc work on street furniture without agreeing a plan, and getting the appropriate H&S and insurance in place. That's not volunteering, that's a risk to the public and exactly what they need to be stepping in to stop happening. That's not where public volunteering programs deliver benefits, they work best where projects need a lot of labour, but where they'd never get budget (like picking rubbish off beaches). Volunteer programs couple all the benefits of planned objectives, safety and the right equipment to do the job with willing workers. They're not just about randoms having a go on their own.

Bollocks.

Volunteering is volunteering. FFS don't get the insurance companies involved. Those greedy cunts will make it cost more than paying someone to do it!

[Thefella]

2 minutes ago, A fool and his money..... said:

Bollocks.

Volunteering is volunteering. FFS don't get the insurance companies involved. Those greedy cunts will make it cost more than paying someone to do it!

I think the bastard might actually be Bill Dale. That’s a really good excuse why volunteers can’t just do volunteering free lance. That would be far too helpful. You need us around to do all the H&S sign offs and the risks assessments so that you can work for nothing for us so that we can get charity donations! FFS. Grifters on all sides! 

[The Bastard]

6 minutes ago, A fool and his money..... said:

Bollocks.

Volunteering is volunteering. FFS don't get the insurance companies involved. Those greedy cunts will make it cost more than paying someone to do it!

I totally see that, and agree with the insurance comments, but it's a different world from the 1950s now. When they're talking about a "qualified contractor" they're not talking about someone who went to art college to do advanced brushwork. They're talking about someone who's qualified to manage the risks around working close to a live carriageway, and the risks it presents to the public. All public bodies are aware of a long history of unforeseen deaths and serious injuries associated with seemingly innocuous activities, and they have to take steps to reduce risk or they're not doing their job - particularly where expensive claims from greedy insurance companies will result. That's not where volunteers deliver the best benefit, and not where a volunteer program belongs IMHO.

[Passing Time]

Can’t believe how quickly you all got suckered into this. It’s a great idea if your rates reflect the effort but it won’t. It’s going to give your relevant commissioners license to squander even more money 

[Derek Flint]

10 minutes ago, The Bastard said:

I totally see that, and agree with the insurance comments, but it's a different world from the 1950s now. When they're talking about a "qualified contractor" they're not talking about someone who went to art college to do advanced brushwork. They're talking about someone who's qualified to manage the risks around working close to a live carriageway, and the risks it presents to the public. All public bodies are aware of a long history of unforeseen deaths and serious injuries associated with seemingly innocuous activities, and they have to take steps to reduce risk or they're not doing their job - particularly where expensive claims from greedy insurance companies will result. That's not where volunteers deliver the best benefit, and not where a volunteer program belongs IMHO.

Having spent a lot of my public service career around 'big risk' it can be over-egged and get in the way of the job being done. The police became increasingly risk averse and this led to the publishing of 'Risk Principles' by the College of Policing.

Ultimately, the HSE/HSWI test is 'what was reasonable?'

It's a bit like using data protection as a shield. It stops stuff getting done. That's not advocating a return to Fred Dibnah days, but where people want to help for the greater good, perhaps looking at how it can be enabled is the way forward?

[The Bastard]

22 minutes ago, Passing Time said:

Can’t believe how quickly you all got suckered into this. It’s a great idea if your rates reflect the effort but it won’t. It’s going to give your relevant commissioners license to squander even more money 

That's (predictably) simplistic thinking. Volunteering programs don't have to deliver a direct financial benefit, they sometimes only deliver quality-of-life improvements. That can contribute to the economy - a nicer place attracts more customers- but volunteer activities like picking rubbish off beaches doesn't save significant money, since nobody actually spends money doing it. Benefits are often non-financial - making things safer, better for the environment, or just making a better place to live. That doesn't mean a reduction in rates, but it means an increase in quality of life.

Edited Sunday at 05:20 PM by The Bastard

[The Bastard]

5 minutes ago, Derek Flint said:

Having spent a lot of my public service career around 'big risk' it can be over-egged and get in the way of the job being done. The police became increasingly risk averse and this led to the publishing of 'Risk Principles' by the College of Policing.

Ultimately, the HSE/HSWI test is 'what was reasonable?'

It's a bit like using data protection as a shield. It stops stuff getting done. That's not advocating a return to Fred Dibnah days, but where people want to help for the greater good, perhaps looking at how it can be enabled is the way forward?

Totally. Volunteering programs should be about pairing willing people with the right equipment to get the job done, the right supervision, and the right safety protection. That's enablement.

[Auntie Depressant]

38 minutes ago, Thefella said:

I think the bastard might actually be Bill Dale.

I never knew Bill Dale played guitar? 

[Thefella]

38 minutes ago, Auntie Depressant said:

I never knew Bill Dale played guitar? 

That’s too obtuse for me. Sorry. 

[Passing Time]

1 hour ago, The Bastard said:

That's (predictably) simplistic thinking. Volunteering programs don't have to deliver a direct financial benefit, they sometimes only deliver quality-of-life improvements. That can contribute to the economy - a nicer place attracts more customers- but volunteer activities like picking rubbish off beaches doesn't save significant money, since nobody actually spends money doing it. Benefits are often non-financial - making things safer, better for the environment, or just making a better place to live. That doesn't mean a reduction in rates, but it means an increase in quality of life.

So many words to say anything of quality 

[The Bastard]

18 minutes ago, Passing Time said:

So many words to say anything of quality 

So little wit to understand it.

[Tinpot]

34 minutes ago, Passing Time said:

So many words to say anything of quality 

What?

[asitis]

It's amazing to me how we have got here over the course of the past 30 years. On an island drowning in public servants you would have thought maintenance and it's administration would be easy !

 

[Non-Believer]

If you want to consider the management of where your funds are going whilst on the general subject of beach cleaning; consider DBC still merrily shovelling seaweed back into the sea on a daily basis so it can wash up again on the next tide. Now there's a self perpetuating job if ever there was one and one that @Amadeus said he was going to address when he came into office IIRC...