England

[(Not) MEC VANNIN]

Why have you got an English flag by your name?

 

Exactly Ans, I asked that question sometime ago - still waiting for the answer! Now it's QE2 - is Not Mec Vannin being ironic do you think?

 

NO,THOSEFILTHY ENGLISH PIGS ARE DOING IT TO INSULT ME AND PEOPLE OF MANN

[Lonan3]

Also, NMVs avatar keep mysteriously changing all by itself. Must be a blip in the forum software. There's no way a moderator or admin would be doing it to wind him up.

 

Ahem.

 

I suppose we just have to hope that the 'blip' doesn't change his name to 'Rule Britannia.' That really would be awful!

[Gladys]

Why have you got an English flag by your name?

 

Exactly Ans, I asked that question sometime ago - still waiting for the answer! Now it's QE2 - is Not Mec Vannin being ironic do you think?

 

NO,THOSEFILTHY ENGLISH PIGS ARE DOING IT TO INSULT ME AND PEOPLE OF MANN

You're coming across to me as a stylised German commander in 1950s/60s war films, or am I missing the point?

[Chloephoria]

Isnt it true there is only 10% of the population here is actually true manx? So most people here will have great grandparents or other that came from the UK. Im from england and all i hear is "Oh these comeovers blah blah blah" "Comeovers this and that" "Comeovers etc etc". Im only here because my partner is manx and wont leave even though i hope im not stuck here until i die. How come a person from england has to get a work permit even though if a manx person went over there they wouldnt need one? The manx government (Who claims to be independant) uses the uk's education system/tv stations/currency/NHS almost everything from the uk here. So it feels like they steal all our stuff but dont want us over here, but you can go over there no questions asked. A southafrican i saw working in two shops and i couldnt even get one work permit so how did he get two and im british? Most of the people i have met are racist, i have lots of nice mates but then i cant go a week without someone going on about comeovers etc etc etc. So if the government really wanted to be independant then why dont they stop anything from the uk and make their own, but then if that would have happened the island would still be in the 1930's or something. I read in a newspaper crossword - British dependacy island - was the clue, no guesses as to what fitted. So whoever made this post then your a racist twat who is probably not one of the 10% real manx anyway

[Lonan3]

I appreciate what your saying - there are many so-called 'Manx' people who, through generations of in-breeding, appear to have minds that have narrowed almost to a point.

It has to be pointed out, however, that there are few, if any, places in the world in which people can truly claim to be the 'aboriginals.'

For most of us, the word 'comeovers' is a jocular term - not to be taken seriously - and those who settle here, adopt our culture (to some degree) and contribute to the local economy in some way ought to be made welcome.

The work-permit system has it's faults (I don't think anyone could argue with that), but it was designed to ensure that those who live here have first option on the jobs that are available - not specifically to deny others from settling here.

With regards to using the UK's NHS - I believe there is a reciprocal agreement in place to enable those from either place to use the facilities available. We use our own currency - but accept the currencies of the UK for transactions (something that most places in the UK do not do with ours, even though it has the same value).

As for TV stations; we pay the same licence fees as the UK and the revenue goes to the UK.

Without the means to finance our own university, it has (regrettably) been necessary to accept the UK's standards and forms of education and even to accept the ridiculous tinkering with it that has taken place.

(Incidentally, we do fund our own students when they go to UK universities and it costs our taxpayers a considerable amount of money).

I certainly agree with your final comment (although I'm more inclined to think that it was made by a complete 'wind-up' merchant) and I hope you'll eventually find that Manks people are no different to anyone else - a little bit insular, perhaps - but most of that is from protectiveness, and pride, towards their own culture.

[Declan]

Isnt it true there is only 10% of the population here is actually true manx? So most people here will have great grandparents or other that came from the UK. Im from england and all i hear is "Oh these comeovers blah blah blah" "Comeovers this and that" "Comeovers etc etc". Im only here because my partner is manx and wont leave even though i hope im not stuck here until i die. How come a person from england has to get a work permit even though if a manx person went over there they wouldnt need one? The manx government (Who claims to be independant) uses the uk's education system/tv stations/currency/NHS almost everything from the uk here. So it feels like they steal all our stuff but dont want us over here, but you can go over there no questions asked. A southafrican i saw working in two shops and i couldnt even get one work permit so how did he get two and im british? Most of the people i have met are racist, i have lots of nice mates but then i cant go a week without someone going on about comeovers etc etc etc. So if the government really wanted to be independant then why dont they stop anything from the uk and make their own, but then if that would have happened the island would still be in the 1930's or something. I read in a newspaper crossword - British dependacy island - was the clue, no guesses as to what fitted. So whoever made this post then your a racist twat who is probably not one of the 10% real manx anyway

 

Does anywhere else in the world adhere to the 4 Grandparent rule? It is an externally imposed distinction (by the EU) that only serves to discriminate against those with 4 Manx Grandparents.

 

I'm sorry that you've had problems with being called a Comeover, however, I expect it might have more to do with your attitude. You seems rather down on the Island, if you are like this in real life, it is natural that people will react when you run down their home - somewhere they love. The same happens in any small town in England - go to Preston and slag it off and see what kind of reaction you get.

 

We steal from the UK? Let's look at the examples you give -

 

Education System - up to higher education it is all provided and funded on the Island. For Higher Education (aside from a limited number of course offered here) our students go across to study, however, their course fees are paid by the Manx Government - and they get charged at a higher rate than UK students.

 

TV Stations - we pay our licence fee like everybody else. Yet we actually receive less from the BBC than people in the UK, not only are digital stations unavailable but we don't have a BBC local radio station - unlike Jersey, Guernsey, and everywhere in the UK and have to subsidse its nearest equivalent from our taxes.

 

Currency - We allow UK currency to be used here. This is service to visitors to the Island, so they don't have to change their cash on arrival - a courtesy not extended to us on the other side. In fact, although I'm not sure how this works, it is better for the Island if Manx notes and coins are used - the treasury asks banks to put Manx money in cash machines.

 

NHS - as Lonan has pointed out this is a reciprocal arrangement. If you think about it though, as you've pointed out a only a small percentage of the population wouldn't benefit from the NHS in England because they would also qualify for joint British nationality. Those that don't are outnumbered by the many people who don't have Manx citizenship treated over here.

 

I'm surprised you can't get a work permit. Have you been refused? What jobs were you applying for and what was the reason they gave for it being declined. As to the South African - he may have been the only person to apply for the shop jobs, or may not have required a work permit through marriage, residency, having been in education on the Island, or have a Manx parent.

[cheesemonster2005]

Isnt it true there is only 10% of the population here is actually true manx? So most people here will have great grandparents or other that came from the UK. Im from england and all i hear is "Oh these comeovers blah blah blah" "Comeovers this and that" "Comeovers etc etc". Im only here because my partner is manx and wont leave even though i hope im not stuck here until i die. How come a person from england has to get a work permit even though if a manx person went over there they wouldnt need one? The manx government (Who claims to be independant) uses the uk's education system/tv stations/currency/NHS almost everything from the uk here. So it feels like they steal all our stuff but dont want us over here, but you can go over there no questions asked. A southafrican i saw working in two shops and i couldnt even get one work permit so how did he get two and im british? Most of the people i have met are racist, i have lots of nice mates but then i cant go a week without someone going on about comeovers etc etc etc. So if the government really wanted to be independant then why dont they stop anything from the uk and make their own, but then if that would have happened the island would still be in the 1930's or something. I read in a newspaper crossword - British dependacy island - was the clue, no guesses as to what fitted. So whoever made this post then your a racist twat who is probably not one of the 10% real manx anyway

 

I can't agree with everything in your post but I accept that in order for the island to be more self-providing we must pay for UK services and try to develop Manx industries more. The TV license is paid by most people on the island so they're not stealing TV from the UK. What about Irish stations though? If you're able to pick up RTE should you pay a fee to the Eire government? As mentioned in other posts currencies are only interchangeable because the island chooses to allow this (most UK stores and some banks won't allow Manx notes).

 

People on the island aren't overtly racist but it's true that some negative attitudes persist but I feel this is because of history and isolation which doesn't justify it but makes it more understandable.

 

Also some Manx people ARE at a disadvantage because they are unable to travel and work freely in the EU which British people are able to enjoy.

[Mr. Sausages]

The posts in this thread are waaay too long for me to be reading.

[Gladys]

Yes, I've used up all my reading too!

[VinnieK]

I'm sorry that you've had problems with being called a Comeover, however, I expect it might have more to do with your attitude.

 

I expect it must be difficult to have a super fun happy attitude towards the island if you happen to witness the way hi-larious exclusionary habits such as calling people comeovers and reminding anyone with the slightest negative observation about the Island that "there's a boat in the morning" have become near part of general practice when it comes to dealing with people.

 

Note also that Chloephoria did not say that she was being called a comeover, but that "all i hear is "Oh these comeovers blah blah blah" "Comeovers this and that" "Comeovers etc etc".".

 

Let's not be so coy as to pretend that the Manx only discriminate against those 'who deserve it', not least because no one deserves it.

[kellyiom]

Hope you get things sorted chloephoria- there should be redress against wk permit decisions; as you say there's a lot of unfairness with it and rarely stops those with the right resources.

[mollag]

I'm sorry that you've had problems with being called a Comeover, however, I expect it might have more to do with your attitude.

 

I expect it must be difficult to have a super fun happy attitude towards the island if you happen to witness the way hi-larious exclusionary habits such as calling people comeovers and reminding anyone with the slightest negative observation about the Island that "there's a boat in the morning" have become near part of general practice when it comes to dealing with people.

 

Note also that Chloephoria did not say that she was being called a comeover, but that "all i hear is "Oh these comeovers blah blah blah" "Comeovers this and that" "Comeovers etc etc".".

 

Let's not be so coy as to pretend that the Manx only discriminate against those 'who deserve it', not least because no one deserves it.

 

 

OK lets not be coy Vinnie, what exactly are you saying about "the manx" and why do you seem to separate yourself from them ?

I assume you are from England so can you tell me how, let us say scousers" are treated in say Brighton?

My info tells me they are regarded as interlopers and are unwelcome.

 

It appears that "the manx" do not have a monopoly in regionality so whats the problem?, thats life boy, get a thicker skin already.

 

PS Take no note of not mec vannin. its a piss take or wind up whatever, he is probably about twelve in age, many years younger in maturity.

[Upstream]

A general question.

 

How many people do you know that have both parents and both sets of grandparents born on the Island?

 

Ask the most Manxie person you know and the chances are their grandmother was Irish or a Grandfather Scottish or something.

[VinnieK]

OK lets not be coy Vinnie, what exactly are you saying about "the manx" and why do you seem to separate yourself from them ?

I assume you are from England

 

Guess again, I'm Manx, born and raised. I said 'The Manx' as I don't wish to be so presumptuous as to use the terminology 'us lot' or 'you lot'.

 

so can you tell me how, let us say scousers" are treated in say Brighton?

My info tells me they are regarded as interlopers and are unwelcome.

 

I have no idea, I'm not that familiar with Brighton, but even if you're right, you're missing the point by a long shot. Even if a practice is widespread doesn't mean it's right. Last time I was over I had the pleasure of witnessing an exchange between some teenagers in one of the Island's cafés, one was chinese and was being berated rather harshly for his accent, being told he'd best learn to "fucking speak properly" and lose his "stupid" accent if he wanted to fit in. Can anyone justify this on the basis that such attitudes are 'widespread' elsewhere, or an ugly feature of many adolescents? No, because it's just plain wrong and stupid wherever it happens, and however prevalent it is. The same is true of blaming 'come overs' for the erosion of some semi-mythical modern day manx culture that differs from the UK's in only the most vaguest of terms and degrees, or oozing indignation everytime some non-manx resident has a complaint about the Island regardless of the fact that since they live there their opinion is just as valid as that of any who live here - including the type of jumped up, over-beligerant would-be William Wallace of the Isle of Man who thinks that being born here gives them the right to dismiss the views of others as the mere rantings of 'come overs'.

 

 

It appears that "the manx" do not have a monopoly in regionality so whats the problem?, thats life boy, get a thicker skin already.

 

Again, not the point. The main focus of Chloephoria's post and the replies it got was the reception 'comeovers' get from the Manx, not the relative degrees of thick headed animosity and cultural insecurity around the British Isles as a whole.

 

PS Take no note of not mec vannin. its a piss take or wind up whatever, he is probably about twelve in age, many years younger in maturity.

 

Well, it's nice to see you managed to get the gist of something on this thread.

[Chloephoria]

I'm sorry that you've had problems with being called a Comeover, however, I expect it might have more to do with your attitude. - what do you mean? attitude? im nice unless its saturday night and raining and i have no coat or umbrella - speaking of which - the iom's weather....messing.

 

I expect it must be difficult to have a super fun happy attitude towards the island if you happen to witness the way hi-larious exclusionary habits such as calling people comeovers and reminding anyone with the slightest negative observation about the Island that "there's a boat in the morning" have become near part of general practice when it comes to dealing with people. - must be difficult being a super funny man who sounds so happy all the time 'hi-larious!'

 

OK lets not be coy Vinnie, what exactly are you saying about "the manx" and why do you seem to separate yourself from them ? - i try not to but its like if you went to live if spain, no too many brits there, brazil say,you would feel out of place and im not saying the iom is like brazil but now i know what it feels like to be a black person living in the uk - if you get what i mean?

 

You seems rather down on the Island, if you are like this in real life, it is natural that people will react when you run down their home - somewhere they love - i dont go round saying it all the time, i was just saying what i thought because it was a topic, if i were that botherd i would have made my own topic about it.

 

I'm surprised you can't get a work permit. Have you been refused? What jobs were you applying for and what was the reason they gave for it being declined. - because apparently too many manx people applied for it too, i wanted to be a graphic designer but i left college in the uk to come here to be with my bf because he was at college too and we wanted to be together so i left for him. So i had to get a flat and obviously had to find a job, any job to pay the rent - but any job is not a job i want and because i didnt finish college i cant be a graphic designer! SO - i tried to go to college here but it was only part time, and then working full time, etc etc was all too much, so now i am back to any old job.....and i dont have any bad records, so i dont know.

 

I apprechiate all your comments and i wasnt having a go, i was just saying. B)