Grumble Posted October 26, 2005 Share Posted October 26, 2005 Yeah, that Steve Rodan feller and his lilting Upper Foxdale accent, John Rimington being born and bred in Bride, Quintin Gill found by nuns alongside the Fairy Bridge, Leonard Singer's Manx as the hills of course... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blixo Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 Donning flak jacket before retiring to nuclear bunker.......this so-called government (glorified town council) is made up entirely, to the best of my knowledge, of Manx men and women. Perhaps it is time for the Manx people to put prejudices aside and put their vote in favour of candidates who weren't born and bred here. It is the only way that this nepotistic, back-scratching system of government is going to be broken. And perhaps the reason why new residents are not forthcoming for election is because they know that as a non-native, they are urinating into the proverbial wind. Well I have to say your knowledge is not up to much on this subject... I think you'll find that IOM Government tends import a lot of its 'expertise' from the mainland & elsewhere. It comes down to this. There is no great conspiracy stopping anybody from getting involved in local issues. You just have to get off your ass & do something that's all. Tell you what try speaking to your MHK for starters... after all that is what they're paid for. Something that is beginning to bug me though. Have you noticed how the word Manx = Bad Whinge about Manx Roads Whinge about Manx Government Whinge about Manx Drivers Frankly I find this kind off attitude counterproductive & a tad racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
do nothing Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 some people whinge about manx whingers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonan3 Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 some people whinge about manx whingers And some whinge about people whingeing about Manx whingers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 Donning flak jacket before retiring to nuclear bunker.......this so-called government (glorified town council) is made up entirely, to the best of my knowledge, of Manx men and women. Perhaps it is time for the Manx people to put prejudices aside and put their vote in favour of candidates who weren't born and bred here. It is the only way that this nepotistic, back-scratching system of government is going to be broken. And perhaps the reason why new residents are not forthcoming for election is because they know that as a non-native, they are urinating into the proverbial wind. Well I have to say your knowledge is not up to much on this subject... I think you'll find that IOM Government tends import a lot of its 'expertise' from the mainland & elsewhere. It comes down to this. There is no great conspiracy stopping anybody from getting involved in local issues. You just have to get off your ass & do something that's all. Tell you what try speaking to your MHK for starters... after all that is what they're paid for. Something that is beginning to bug me though. Have you noticed how the word Manx = Bad Whinge about Manx Roads Whinge about Manx Government Whinge about Manx Drivers Frankly I find this kind off attitude counterproductive & a tad racist. Maybe so, but what's the point in the government importing expertise from the mainland then refusing them a work permit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blixo Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 some people whinge about manx whingers Yeah & we have to put with the... When I's & the NIMBY's Maybe so, but what's the point in the government importing expertise from the mainland then refusing them a work permit? Ah the old work permit gripe... Isle of Man Work Permits Anybody wishing to work on the Isle of Man must have a work permit, unless they hold "Isle of Man Worker" status or work in an exempt occupation. Isle of Man Workers are people who fall into any of the following categories: * born on the Isle of Man * have lived on the Isle of Man for at least 10 consecutive years * have lived in the Isle of Man for at least 5 consecutive years and not lived elsewhere more than once in the following 15 years (Residence in the Isle of Man before 1963 does not count) * married to an Isle of Man worker * have been married to an Isle of Man worker, have lived in the island for at least 3 years immediately before becoming widowed or divorced and continue to live in the island thereafter * child of an Isle of Man worker who was serving in the armed forces at the time of the birth * child of a parent who was born in the Isle of Man, provided that the parent lived in the island for their first 5 years * received full time education, either in the island or elsewhere, whilst normally living in the Isle of Man and continue to live in the island thereafter Exempt occupations are: * Employment as the Chief Constable or a member of the Isle of Man Constabulary * Employment in the service of the Crown * Employment in a diplomatic or consular capacity * Employment as a Minister of Religion * Employment as a registered dentist * Employment as a registered doctor * Employment in a vessel or aircraft * Employment as a commercial traveller for a non-island trader provided that it is for not more than 2 weeks at a time * Temporary employment for not more than 3 days. This is meant to cover the situation where someone comes to the Isle of Man, carries out a specific job and goes away not to return. Someone who makes repeated short term visits to the Isle of Man is counted as having built up a pattern of employment in the island and requires a permit * Temporary employment for more than 3 days where the Department is satisfied that there are good reasons to grant an exemption. This applies, for example, to persons directly involved in the TT races or other large and specialised events where it is obvious that there are no locals available * Self employment of a purely cultural nature Special exemptions can be made for: * Persons in temporary employment mainly in relation to criminal investigation or similar e.g. in connection with court proceedings * Non resident, non executive directors who visit the Isle of Man for not more than 3 days in any calendar month. The intention of this is that they can come to the Isle of Man to attend board meetings The main objective of the work permit legislation is to protect employment opportunities for local workers as can be seen in the factors that determine the awarding of a work permit. The following five factors must be taken into account by the work permit committee: 1. The likelihood of there being suitable Isle of Man Workers available for the employment concerned 2. The likelihood of suitable Isle of Man Workers becoming available within 12 months, bearing in mind general employment prospects 3. The family circumstances of the person concerned, provided that he has been working in the island on a permit for at least two years 4. Any criminal convictions, on or off the island, of the person concerned 5. In the case of a craftsman in the building trade whether he is registered under the Scheme for the Certification of Craftsmen 1990 Other factors commonly considered include: * The percentage of Isle of Man Workers already working for the employer concerned * The wages and conditions on offer * The size of the family of the person requiring the permit * The character of the person concerned and of members of his family * Whether or not the employer has made Isle of Man Workers aware of the vacancy * Whether a refusal would be harsh and oppressive to the employee Work permits are issued for varying time periods dependent upon the seniority of the position, the duration of the work and the current employment climate. It is not uncommon for work permits to be issued which need to be renewed annually, although people taking up more senior posts may be issued a 5 year work permit after which they would become Isle of Man Workers. Work permit application forms can be obtained from: The Secretary to the Work Permit Committee Department of Trade and Industry Employment Services Nivison House, Prospect Hill Douglas IM1 1QS Do you have the fact's & figures to support your claim? Are you part of the decision making process? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 Blixo, I won't bother quoting the whole of your post as that would be a waste of bandwidth. This was not a work permit gripe, it was a gripe about supposedly bringing in expertise from the mainland. It makes the whole island look like a bunch of retards in the national press when this situation happens. If my memory serves me right wasn't it a new fire chief or education chief who was recruited from the UK then refused a work permit? I'm sure someone else reading this thread will be able to quote names & dates etc. I have been on the Island for 4 years after spending most of my life in the UK and various places in Europe with the military. I am obviously still subject to the work permit system but I am in the minority in that I fully support and agree with the system. Try reading a post before replying, you completely missed the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Flynn Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 I attended Edgar Quine's talk on the effectiveness and efficiency of Tynwald on Thursdays. Mr Quine painted a picture of political cronyism, lack of effective democracy, too much power in the hands of the Chief Minister, politicians keeping their heads below the parapet in case they lose the chance of being a Minister, a second chamber comprising chums of the the Lower House and so on. Mr Quine had been in Tynwald for 18 years and appears to have become increasingly dissillusioned. It seems to me the people of this Island should be very concerned about the system we have got and should seek assurances from those who stand at the next election that they will work to correct these deficiencies to ensure that the people are truly represented. Mr Quine thought the Manx can sort this out themselves. I hope he is right but I am not so sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesemonster2005 Posted October 29, 2005 Share Posted October 29, 2005 Who's Island is it anyway ? Well there is THE PEOPLE. The people of this Island do not seam to realise that the Isle of Man does not belong to our geriatric government that meanders from day to day wasting everyone’s time and money. The Isle of Man belongs to the people and the government must be stopped from destroying it. Surely by definition it's owned by Men (or maybe a man) rather than all people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonan3 Posted October 29, 2005 Share Posted October 29, 2005 Surely by definition it's owned by Men (or maybe a man) rather than all people. As it was one of the first places in the world to extend the franchise to women, that is clearly spurious - unfortunately! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah 01 Posted October 29, 2005 Share Posted October 29, 2005 'Mr Quine thought the Manx can sort this out themselves. I hope he is right but I am not so sure.' Hence my assertion that it is time for non-islanders, not weighed down by local cronyism and and nepotism, to inject some new blood into the system. Perhaps MHKs should be restricted to no more than 2 terms in office thereby giving a steady turn-over of seats and avoiding stagnation and the problems mentioned. But above and beyond that, a complete reform of government is a pre-requisite to any progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blixo Posted October 29, 2005 Share Posted October 29, 2005 Blixo, I won't bother quoting the whole of your post as that would be a waste of bandwidth. This was not a work permit gripe, it was a gripe about supposedly bringing in expertise from the mainland. It makes the whole island look like a bunch of retards in the national press when this situation happens. If my memory serves me right wasn't it a new fire chief or education chief who was recruited from the UK then refused a work permit? I'm sure someone else reading this thread will be able to quote names & dates etc.I have been on the Island for 4 years after spending most of my life in the UK and various places in Europe with the military. I am obviously still subject to the work permit system but I am in the minority in that I fully support and agree with the system. Try reading a post before replying, you completely missed the point. Sidney, I did kinda take your post the wrong way. I apologise... I must be something to do with seasonal affective disorder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diomed Posted October 29, 2005 Share Posted October 29, 2005 From my observation the Island is run by senior civil servants and the MHKs are just their mouthpieces. Unfortunately these civil servants are imported second hand types who in the good old days of the Empire would have been kicked out to Poona, Nairobi, Colombo etc to screw up the natives out there. Unfortunately there is no Empire left, not even Hongkong [now there was a place for jobs for the boys] so we are stuck with them over here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Flynn Posted October 29, 2005 Share Posted October 29, 2005 'Mr Quine thought the Manx can sort this out themselves. I hope he is right but I am not so sure.' Hence my assertion that it is time for non-islanders, not weighed down by local cronyism and and nepotism, to inject some new blood into the system. Perhaps MHKs should be restricted to no more than 2 terms in office thereby giving a steady turn-over of seats and avoiding stagnation and the problems mentioned. But above and beyond that, a complete reform of government is a pre-requisite to any progress. An interesting idea. However I do not believe the Manx people's Government should be sorted out exclusively by Manx or non Manx - all who have the well being of this Island at heart should take part. Two terms - well that is something I haven't heard of before unless you are the USA President when the second term seems to ruin your reputation. It would probably end the career politician type who are hoping they can keep going for a lifetime without getting involved again in the work they have left. Would it help the people? If there is a legislature elsewhere which works on this principle I would be interested in hearing about it. Civil servants do run the show to a large extent because we simply do not attract that many politicians who can properly control and direct them. Leave it to the professionals - it is only the civil servants who really know what's going on. Hardly a good system of Government though, is it? Well we know the problems - how can they be changed without a revolution? Some good people over the years have been working on this without much to show for it. The assorted ideas need to be aired and the people must be consulted through a public inquiry with a truly independent chairman. It will cost but surely this a small price to pay for our future. Only those who want appropriate change to a clean true democratic system where the people's rights are protected should remain or become MHK's/MLC's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Posted October 29, 2005 Share Posted October 29, 2005 I too was at the the lecture on Thurs night and was surprised at how small the audience was - he quietly but totally demolished any pretence to democracy of the present system but had little to put in its place - the introduction of party politics might work but doesn't seem to fit well, the concept that those intending to stand as Chief Minister should have a manifesto to which voters can require potential MHKs to state their allegiance seems to me completely unworkable. If we had an independent press/radio which could bring some form of extra-parliamentary scrutiny to bear then the existing system might just work though it seems to require MHKs to have more scruples then several of the present bunch of rusty keys have exhibited.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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