Charles Flynn Posted October 29, 2005 Share Posted October 29, 2005 I too was at the the lecture on Thurs night and was surprised at how small the audience was - he quietly but totally demolished any pretence to democracy of the present system but had little to put in its place - the introduction of party politics might work but doesn't seem to fit well, the concept that those intending to stand as Chief Minister should have a manifesto to which voters can require potential MHKs to state their allegiance seems to me completely unworkable. If we had an independent press/radio which could bring some form of extra-parliamentary scrutiny to bear then the existing system might just work though it seems to require MHKs to have more scruples then several of the present bunch of rusty keys have exhibited.. Frances, The number in the audience was about the average for the Cathedral lectures. The lectures that I have attended over many years have been really good. The late Canon Denis Baggaley was possibly the best I have heard - certainly for entertainment and the lack of discretion! Regarding Edgar Quine's lectire many of the present Tynwald members would have stayed away to avoid embarrassment. I thought they drew attention to themselves by their absence. Answers from Mr Quine were certainly wanting but that is no surprise as we have got to this sorry state because no one has come forward with radical proposals for democratic government which command support from others. An independent media is absolutely essential but how do we get it? All of them must pay their way and so are dependent on commercial considerations. Manx Radio relies on Government support which must make it rather difficult for the journalists to rubbish the system. Trust is lacking on this island. No one is sure what are the hidden motives of the media, the press, the politicians. This is terrible. All we can do at this time is to enthuse the voting population for change i.e.change which is spelled out - and trust that it will come about because at the end of the day good will prevail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Posted October 29, 2005 Share Posted October 29, 2005 Why should good prevail ? except in sense that victors write the history that later generations read. I think we need accept that voters are cynical about professed motives (though I believe many Island Politicians are at heart honourable) but just like the founding fathers of the US we need a constitional set of checks and balances. One leitmotif through the 1911 Macdonnell inquiry was Chapel vs Church with it seems several proponents on each side mistrustful of the other though the radical policies after that period seem to have come from the golden days of the Manx Labour party. Possibly if the BBC had a presence on the Island this might provide a conduit for independent criticism tho I must admitBBC local radio elsewhere appears somewhat anaodyne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Flynn Posted October 29, 2005 Share Posted October 29, 2005 Why should good prevail ? except in sense that victors write the history that later generations read. I think we need accept that voters are cynical about professed motives (though I believe many Island Politicians are at heart honourable) but just like the founding fathers of the US we need a constitional set of checks and balances. One leitmotif through the 1911 Macdonnell inquiry was Chapel vs Church with it seems several proponents on each side mistrustful of the other though the radical policies after that period seem to have come from the golden days of the Manx Labour party. Possibly if the BBC had a presence on the Island this might provide a conduit for independent criticism tho I must admitBBC local radio elsewhere appears somewhat anaodyne. I was making a theological point which of course is a matter of faith, that good will defeat evil. If we don't have some faith that this will happen we may as well give up now. I agree the victors write history e.g. Churchill wrote the History of the English Speaking People to get his points across first. The Macdonnell inquiry did do some good with the limitation of some of the Governor's powers. A Royal Commission could be helpful but to get to this position trust is essential. I think this could be attained with new people in the Keys. It is not going to happen by agreement from the present members - even though I too believe they are honourable people with very few exceptions -as it would be an admission of failure - not a good position to go into an election year! The BBC's presence on the Island would bring balance. I have grave reservations about some of the people given air time on our local radio. The presenters seem to be interviewing only the people they agree with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 Are you the Charles Flynn that had a hand in IOM politics some years ago? If so, are you intending to put yourself forward at the next general election? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah 01 Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 Given that reform is desirable, how can it be achieved? The majority of Manx residents live day-to-day within a very comfortable 'comfort zone'; taxes are low, food is plentiful (if the ferry runs) and the absence of a mass uprising over energy and petrol prices suggests that 'the people' are prepared to grin and bear the costs. Furthemore, a grossly enlarged Government provides an enviable gravy train for its own. Therefore, how can a fat, dumb and happy majority ever be stimulated to seek any reform while the obvious inadequacies of the current system continue to meet their basic needs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Flynn Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 Are you the Charles Flynn that had a hand in IOM politics some years ago? If so, are you intending to put yourself forward at the next general election? I have made no decision. It has never been discussed at home. My family obviously would be the first to be consulted. My wife would certainly have something to say on this! In any case I would only consider the Keys if I felt I could make a real difference and that my experience is helpful. Others may be better qualified to effect responsible change than I can. In the past I have had considerable work committments which basically ruled me out of full time political life. I no longer have these but I am heavily involved in other matters - church, charities, environment etc. However all I can truthfully say at this moment there is a possibilitiy I would put my name forward but only after getting my families agreement. Certainly to make a difference would require considerable support from like-minded independent people who are likely to be elected. There may be a lot of them around but we can only wait and see who comes forward. We can all agree with Utah 01 that things are too comfortable for some but maybe this will not last. Cycles of comfort and hardship come and go and so do politicians. I believe the people of the I.O.M. will take the next election as an opportunity to remove quite a few of the sitting members who are not up to standard even if they are nice people. In the meantime I take a lively interest in political matters - in social welfare of the people, in the economy and in the environment. Thank you for your interest. It's nice to be remembered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fox Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Well said Charles -nice to see you on the forum.. I think you are correct, the House of Keys needs a good shake out, and only we, the voter can do this.. Moaning about the state of things is ok, but we must do some thing constructive by voting against the "blurts" and incouraging people who have the 'knack' to stand for election ... Good can win, but it needs a hard push to get up the front .. Did'nt get to the lecture -but it sounded as if it was informative etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Flynn Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Well said Charles -nice to see you on the forum.. I think you are correct, the House of Keys needs a good shake out, and only we, the voter can do this.. Moaning about the state of things is ok, but we must do some thing constructive by voting against the "blurts" and incouraging people who have the 'knack' to stand for election ... Good can win, but it needs a hard push to get up the front .. Did'nt get to the lecture -but it sounded as if it was informative etc.. Thank you for the welcome. It is encouraging and that is something which is always good to receive and to give. There should be a good write up of the lecture in November's Church Leader out last week in November. A talk from someone in Mr Quine's position to know what he believes needs to be done should be read by everyone. Let's hope people of integrity will come forward. The I.O.M. needs YOU! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Let's hope people of integrity will come forward. The I.O.M. needs YOU! Sadly, that's very, very true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonan3 Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Let's hope people of integrity will come forward. The I.O.M. needs YOU! Well... I'm a bit busy at the moment..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fox Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Thanks Charles will make sure I get the Leader.. A good speech always breeds enthusiasm and on the island thats got to be something.. Tynwald needs such a shake up..Lets hope, despite the 'state of play' new blood will stand at the next election.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Unless you are qualified in the finance industry why should people of talent stay on the island? To move on and up you need the right kind of experience which I'm sad to say you will never get on the IOM. If you stayed not only would you be a big fish in a very little pond but also the place is a cultural vacuum! Which is why, unfortunately, that your Government consists of little men wearing big hats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fox Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 You have a valid point.. But this island of ours is very beautiful and is the envy many.. The little men with big hats can be sized down in time, at least one must try.. We should never roll over and give up life is what we make it -even Manx Politics.. Trying and losing is better than doing nowt.. B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumble Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 So said Theodore Rooseveldt at the Sorbonne in the 1920's. One of my favourite speeches, which I've seen posted here previously. JUST for the sake of balance though, aren't we in danger of missing out on the big picture at times? Sure, there are problems with some of our politicians and other 'leaders', but it seems to me that the Island has enjoyed a massive wave of success over the last 15 years or so. Inevitably that means some things that people don't like (including having more stayovers here like me!), but it's not a big cost for such a major benefit. If things DO go pear-shaped with another recession, at least we'll have lecky and our waste won't end up in the bay or dug into the Point of Ayre. And we have a fantastic hospital, etc etc. I'm one of those who can't afford to buy a house at what I consider a reasonable price...but there's a downside to everything, and I accept it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Flynn Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 I agree balance is needed and we should not forget the good things - the beauty, the lovely people, what seems to be a safe environment and so on. Although some of my family are in the finance industry having changed direction because that is the way it has always been if you want to live on the island, I would say we should not confuse raw talent as being the main criterion for politicians. Integrity, the love of people, sincerity, moral fibre, understanding of human nature, ability etc all have their worth. I hope all of you agree. But of course ability is a major factor such as the ability for politicians to ensure everyone has a decent home to live in at an affordable price. This is being tackled but it a big issue and from what I know it is a problem which will be with us for years to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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