Skeddan Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Lots of people in the Republic of Ireland can receive BBC, and don't have to pay a license fee - nor do people in Northern Ireland pay the RTE license fee. It seems a bit rough having this foisted on IoM by an Order in Council - becoming part of 'Manx law' without Islanders having any democratic say in the matter. The inspectors can enter your home - and you can be fined if you obstruct them or don't have a TV license - so much for democratic rights and liberties. Is TV license fee inspections 'covered under 'defence' or 'international relations'? I'd have thought it a domestic matter that Westminster should not be imposing on IoM in this manner. It's not really clear what the situation is. Either this is 'ultra vires' and no effect because it is exceeding the powers that Westminster has over IoM, or, more likely, it is valid, and Westminster can impose pretty much what it wants on IoM despite talk of 'conventions', high degree of autonomy in domestic matters etc. i.e. IoM is a kind of pseudo-democratic dictatorship under Westminster. (Not very EU or UN compliant). My guess is that about £1-2m a year goes from IoM to BBC. Over the years it's been a LOT of money. Does IoM get value for money? Sure IoM receives BBC (like Eire), but this is pretty much spillover which is at virtually zero cost to the BBC. What is done in terms of productions - e.g. Regional programming, Manx Gaelic (compare to Welsh and Scots Gaelic), News and Current Affairs coverage (e.g. Question Time etc.), Documentary Series (e.g. history of IoM) etc. Value for money becomes even trickier if there are people in IoM who cannot receive BBC (without Sky which comes at an additonal cost). The BBC are required to provide coverage in the UK, but does not seem this requirement applies to IoM. Rather IoM is pretty much a 'freebie' cash cow. Quite a nice one at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Git Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 The inspectors can enter your home - and you can be fined if you obstruct them I don't think that is correct, or at least certainly not without a warrant of some sort. If they just turn up at your door you can refuse them entry, don't let them make you believe otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeddan Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 The inspectors can enter your home - and you can be fined if you obstruct them I don't think that is correct, or at least certainly not without a warrant of some sort. If they just turn up at your door you can refuse them entry, don't let them make you believe otherwise. Quite right - and I should have made it clearer on this. However the main point is 'taxation without representation' (Yes the TV 'license' is a tax - just like the 'windows tax' only this is one imposed on broadcasting receivers), and how these inspectors are given rights and powers to enter your home (albeit they need to have warrants) by people in Westminster who are not elected representatives of IoM. Out of interest, has anyone actually been fined in a Manx court for not paying their TV License? i.e. do Manx courts recognise and enforce this Westminster imposed legislation as domestic Manx law? Similarly have Manx officials issued warrants to inspectors? Or fined people for obstructing inspectors with warrants? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manshimajin Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 The inspectors can enter your home - and you can be fined if you obstruct them I don't think that is correct, or at least certainly not without a warrant of some sort. If they just turn up at your door you can refuse them entry, don't let them make you believe otherwise. Quite right - and I should have made it clearer on this. However the main point is 'taxation without representation' (Yes the TV 'license' is a tax - just like the 'windows tax' only this is one imposed on broadcasting receivers), and how these inspectors are given rights and powers to enter your home (albeit they need to have warrants) by people in Westminster who are not elected representatives of IoM. Out of interest, has anyone actually been fined in a Manx court for not paying their TV License? i.e. do Manx courts recognise and enforce this Westminster imposed legislation as domestic Manx law? Similarly have Manx officials issued warrants to inspectors? Or fined people for obstructing inspectors with warrants? Apart from not allowing access unless a magistrates warrant is produced you should also also ask an inspector to produce evidence that she/he has current public liability and property damage insurance cover before letting them into your property. This would be a public spirited Occupational Health and Safety measure.....if OH&S says we need scaffolds to paint our houses then surely they must also require inspectors to have insurance to enter someone elses property on uninvited business? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Git Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Out of interest, has anyone actually been fined in a Manx court for not paying their TV License? I think I've heard / read of cases of people being fined for not having a license The last red letter I received off them said that a number, can't remember the amount, of people living on the Island had been fined in the past year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeddan Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 So if Westminster unilaterally imposed a new tax on IoM (e.g. a poll tax, corp tax on offshores, or tax on tea) one should expect that too would be enforced by Manx courts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silentbob Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 The agreement between the IoM and UK on TV licensing is just that, an agreement. Uk asks if we will enforce it, and we agree. Much the same as the common purse agreement, where the UK asks to enforce VAT (customs and Excise) which goes into the UK purse, we agree. The home office can also over rule decisions made, like when they told us to shift that guy who killed the lass up by Sulby Dam over to the UK instead of stringing the bastard up. Mostly they do leave us alone though. I miss when 24 was on BBC, no ads, Sky string a 40 min show out to an hour, Channel 5 got and killed neighbours (yes I was a closet neighbours watcher). The BBC is a good thing imho, and will continue to happily pay to watch it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDave Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 I don't think that is correct, or at least certainly not without a warrant of some sort. If they just turn up at your door you can refuse them entry, don't let them make you believe otherwise. They need a warrant from a magistrate before they have powers of entry. Before they can get one, they will have to had already interviewed you under caution and have cause to believe you are breaking the law. Not being on their database doesn't cut it, neither does having an aerial on your roof. If they can't prove they have reasonable cause to gain entry then they cannot get a warrant. Incidentally, no one has ever had "Detector evidence" presented in court - making me think they can't legally use it. Almost all their prosecutions are as a result of people owning up under caution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 I don't think that is correct, or at least certainly not without a warrant of some sort. If they just turn up at your door you can refuse them entry, don't let them make you believe otherwise. They need a warrant from a magistrate before they have powers of entry. Before they can get one, they will have to had already interviewed you under caution and have cause to believe you are breaking the law. Not being on their database doesn't cut it, neither does having an aerial on your roof. If they can't prove they have reasonable cause to gain entry then they cannot get a warrant. Incidentally, no one has ever had "Detector evidence" presented in court - making me think they can't legally use it. Almost all their prosecutions are as a result of people owning up under caution. I'm pretty sure that TV licence inspectors have (along with quite a few other persons) what is called a 'statuary right of entry to your home'. I don't think they need a warrant of any description. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDave Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Nope. They definately 100% need a warrant. They try to tell you otherwise, but unless you agree to let them in they cannot enter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryMcCann Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Do they still announce when the inspectors are coming over to the Island in the paper? I need to plan my annual holiday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Git Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 I'm pretty sure that TV licence inspectors have (along with quite a few other persons) what is called a 'statuary right of entry to your home'. No, they don't have any right at all to enter your home. You can refuse them entry. They may try to play on the householders ignorance to gain entry but you have an absolute right to deny them entry. if they have a warrant that totally changes the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manshimajin Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 If I understad the comments on this thread properly the consensus seems to be that some form of TV licence is reasonable but that most people have experience of, and are unhappy with, the discourteous behaviour of the TVLA. The reality is that politicians, and only politicians, are able to put meaningful pressure on the TVLA to improve the way it communicates with Manx citizens. Bureaucrats like this do not care about the people who pay their wages. If you, or someone you know, is upset about the way the TV Licensing Authority communicates with you send a letter with copies of the correspondence to your MHK and the Chief Minister. I remember Malcolm Fraser, a former Australian Prime Minister, saying that if he got 4 letters on any one topic he knew that there was a problem that needed fixing. Copies of my TVLA 'love letters' have gone off to the First Minister today pointing out that I would be mortified if I felt an authority employed by the Manx Government was writing to my constituents the way the TVLA does - I'll let you know what he says in reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old_scrote Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 An elderly retired neighbour has purchased a licence, never missed, in over 40 years I'm certain that if you neighbour is over 70 yrs old then the license should be free.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 An elderly retired neighbour has purchased a licence, never missed, in over 40 years I'm certain that if you neighbour is over 70 yrs old then the license should be free.. I think it's 75 (or 74 if your licence is due before your next birthday). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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