Us Troops Shoot Dead Iraqis In Van

[Survivor]

Yet another balls up by the americans

 

US troops shoot dead Iraqis in van

 

I couldn't believe the audacity of this statment tho

 

These tragedies only happen because Zarqawi and his thugs are out there driving around with car bombs

 

errrr no - these tragedies only happen because the US troops are too fucking trigger happy!

[slinkydevil]

errrr no - these tragedies only happen because the US troops are too fucking trigger happy!

 

A terrible mistake - yes. Trigger Happy? Yep maybe. I don't doubt that.

 

But survivor you go to Iraq and after a 6 months tour of duty, seeing your best friends and colleagues killed right in front of you, because someone has rammed the checkpoint with a van full of explosives.

 

You are waving down a minibus to stop, but it continues to charge towards you. Fire off some warning shots maybe? No it's still coming towards you! Perhaps if you were in the situation you might understand the tension and pressure some troops are under, in a country that is unfortunatley still rife with conflict.

 

Its easy to sit and be judge and jury from your comfortable chair, tapping away on your PC. But unless you were there at that moment in the mindset of those troops, then I might agree with you.

[Rog]

There’s another factor that people may not believe let alone understand and that relates to how could a man possibly load his family into a vehicle and deliberately place them in harms way or even go so far as to undertake some action that he knows will get them killed.

 

The answer is the religious fervour that many of these people have.

 

The people who dies at the hands of the US troops will be seen as martyrs both in their own eyes and by others.

 

In their eyes they will go straight to paradise. No waiting, no risks of falling foul some way in life, you get a non-stop express ticket to The Great Garden.

 

To the devout mohammedan, and the majority in the crap hole countries are where these people are to be found in abundance kept devout and kept ignorant by their imman’s, and peer pressure and the teaching and direction of the cult to which they belong, the path to Paradise is as real as the M1 motorway and if anything considerably more reliable and predictable.

 

So there have no doubt been a considerable number of cases where the ‘mini bus with a family that was shot at and destroyed’ had been deliberately loaded with a family intent not on going to Down Town Basra but instead to Paradise as martyrs for their (as they see it) holy cause. It was their contribution to Jihad.

[cheesemonster2005]

There’s another factor that people may not believe let alone understand and that relates to how could a man possibly load his family into a vehicle and deliberately place them in harms way or even go so far as to undertake some action that he knows will get them killed.

 

The answer is the religious fervour that many of these people have.

 

The people who dies at the hands of the US troops will be seen as martyrs both in their own eyes and by others.

 

They are not the only religious nutters. What about the very man who leads the American people. He's deeply religious and has beliefs for intolerable ideas like abortion restrictions, creation theory and during every speech he gives he doesn't fail to mention God. He's off his head.

 

Yes, the Americans are trigger happy. It's a complaint that has been raised against them since WWII. The Americans don't realise that if they were a little more reserved with their shooting they may win the trust of the Iraqi people and help to stop further violence. For every innocent girl who is killed I reckon at least 20 new fighters are created.

[When Skies Are Grey]

Hey Rog any thoughts on the Sharon position?? Always keen to hear your views on that part of the world.

[theintelligentthug]

i dont believe dubya is a fervent christian. i believe hes an atheist who understands how to market to the lowest common demoninator in his home country. hes smarter than he looks.

[Lonan3]

American troops trigger-happy? Perish the thought!

 

Independent: 25 September 2005

 

US forces have fired so many bullets in Iraq and Afghanistan - an estimated 250,000 for every insurgent killed - that American ammunition-makers cannot keep up with demand. As a result the US is having to import supplies from Israel. A government report says that US forces are now using 1.8 billion rounds of small-arms ammunition a year.

[Amadeus]

But survivor you go to Iraq and after a 6 months tour of duty, seeing your best friends and colleagues killed right in front of you, because someone has rammed the checkpoint with a van full of explosives.

 

You are waving down a minibus to stop, but it continues to charge towards you. Fire off some warning shots maybe? No it's still coming towards you! Perhaps if you were in the situation you might understand the tension and pressure some troops are under, in a country that is unfortunatley still rife with conflict.

As much as I can't stand the Yanks, I have to agree. Take a look at some of the recent CCTV clips from car bombs in Iraq here and here. The news tend to make it all sound very sterile and far away, but seing such a blast, you somehow understand that these soldiers (many of whom only do this as a "job" in order to get any employment) are not taking chances anymore. Blame the man at the helm, not the soldier on the street..

[Rog]

Hey Rog any thoughts on the Sharon position?? Always keen to hear your views on that part of the world.

 

Sharon has obviously had to move away from the hawks that do exist in Likud and who see the resolution of the Palestinian issue as being by utterly subjugating the Palestinians.

 

I think that a lot of people misjudged Sharon and saw him not as he is but as his enemies wanted him to be seen. Events have shown him to be a committed Israeli who will take the hard decisions but who like most Israelis wants nothing more than peace and security for Israel.

 

At 77 there is a question about how much longer he can go on or for that matter how much longer he would want to go on in politics, especially in Middle East politics and the massive split in Likud between the hawks who are furious over the Land-for-Peace strategy and the (relative) doves who are willing to pursue a Land-for-Peace deal, provided Jerusalem is never on the table, is insolvable so is best resolved by letting it happen. Or even making it happen as Sharon has done, so at least not needing to carry on for a matter of even weeks as a lame duck such as Blair is today in the UK.

 

The result? Who knows. Certainly the death of arafat has significantly improved the situation though his legacy of poison lives on and will do for generations. My own take is that thanks to the presence of Sharon and his hard but fair policies in dealing with arafats trouble making the death toll on both sides has been far less than it would have been under a softer leader and history will eventually show Sharon as being one of the greats in world politics.

 

For the future? I suspect that a swing to the left and a softer tone will be what will be seen as despite what people think there’s no wish for an antagonistic relationship against the Palestinians from the majority of Israeli people though as always there’ll be the lunatic fringe who will want to go the whole hog (an unfortunate expression!)

 

IF hamas can be kept under some degree of control by Abu Hamza and IF outside influences can be kept out I can see a significant improvement in Israel and the creation of a recognised Palestinian territory leading to full statehood. But those are two very big ‘IF’s.

 

Sharon has done a brilliant job. He will still play a part but I doubt if it will be as PM.

 

He also looks quite a bit like me so he MUST be a good guy!

[tameelf]

last month 2 brits in a car reported stolen from the usa came under supision at a checkpoint. the brits opened fire killin a iraqi copper.the mob persued the car and occupants and arresterd them. the brits were dressed as arabs in a car packed with explosives 2 weeks later 2 americans were caught in same cercumstances. the plan is not to gain trust the plan is to start a civel war divide and conqure.these are not acidents its delibrate genocide .real insurgents or freedom fighters would be attacking pipelines water and oil.all supply lines and all air traffic not civilians

[P.K.]

Yes, the Americans are trigger happy. It's a complaint that has been raised against them since WWII. The Americans don't realise that if they were a little more reserved with their shooting they may win the trust of the Iraqi people and help to stop further violence. For every innocent girl who is killed I reckon at least 20 new fighters are created.

The US forces have always used overwhelming firepower to protect their troops on the ground. From a military standpoint it makes sense. Although where you get your "20 new fighters for every girl killed" figure I really have no idea.

 

A car that had been stolen by joyriders was driven at British troops in Northern Island. They opened fire resulting in death. One of the soldiers, Lee Clegg who fired the fatel shots, was put on trial for it and sentenced because he kept firing after the car had passed them. Of course he did, he was trained to kill the enemy. Fortunately on appeal common sense prevailed. I mean, the joyriders were really to blame for the death because just how stupid can you be?

 

The incident in Iraq is tragic. It is always tragic when innocent lives are lost. As far as I understand it unfortunately the driver behaved as though he was a suicide bomber. So they opened fire just like they have been trained and ordered to do.

 

At the end of the day you hesitate in a situation like that and you put yourself and your comrades at risk. So you don't.

[Lonan3]

Yes, the Americans are trigger happy. It's a complaint that has been raised against them since WWII. The Americans don't realise that if they were a little more reserved with their shooting they may win the trust of the Iraqi people and help to stop further violence. For every innocent girl who is killed I reckon at least 20 new fighters are created.

The US forces have always used overwhelming firepower to protect their troops on the ground. From a military standpoint it makes sense.

 

Unfortunately, not just since WWII - but certainly during it! The number of allied troops killed during the Normandy landings certainly weren't all down to the defending forces!

[cheesemonster2005]

Yes, the Americans are trigger happy. It's a complaint that has been raised against them since WWII. The Americans don't realise that if they were a little more reserved with their shooting they may win the trust of the Iraqi people and help to stop further violence. For every innocent girl who is killed I reckon at least 20 new fighters are created.

The US forces have always used overwhelming firepower to protect their troops on the ground. From a military standpoint it makes sense. Although where you get your "20 new fighters for every girl killed" figure I really have no idea.

 

 

Of course the 20 new fighters figure isn't acurate but it's been seen in backwazrd places like Israel that action taken against civilians simply generates more new fighters. 20 is just a guess but I feel that, given the increasing death rates, it may be an under-estimation.

 

Israel tried to combat terrorism by restricting the rights of civilians (road closures, buliding Berlin Wall 2, demolishing house of the relatives of fighters) and this led, inevitably, to yet more terrorism and yet more people pissed of with the policies of Israel. It's a shame - Jewish people are very peace-loving but the actions of the Israeli state make so many people hate it (and Jewish people by association).