Survivor Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 wouldn't it be great if we could all work and live where we wanted. Unfortunately that's not the case and i guess there are a few loopholes that need to be looked at. Business' are getting greedier, hence why they go outside of their own country to find cheaper employment - if you were a business person, i'm sure you'd do the same if it meant bigger profits for you. I guess i'm really lucky to live over this side of the world as i can claim grandparent ancestry - however, if i move away for more than 2 years, i'm not entitled to come back and live, so somethings aren't as simple as they appear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Git Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 wouldn't it be great if we could all work and live where we wanted I'd love to have the option to live in the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, EU (parts of) but I can't unless I "qualify" on some points scheme. I probably wouldn't get enough points in my own right, although my wife probably would, but work always gets in the way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 and i cant get a student grant over here because im not manx but you manxies and go to the uk and get one! No, they get one from the Manx Government. If you want one go to the UK Government. and the iom might as well just be part of the uk because its pretty much the same apart from a few things changed in the law to make it 'different' and shoprite sells food from iceland which is a uk company, 99percent of the shops in town are from the uk, the only thing that makes it different is probably the word yessir. Welcome to Globalisation. and about all the polish people coming to the uk we didnt see all us trying to get over to poland, or we didnt see the polish rushing to turkey or places like that did we?! and even if we dont lose what jobs we have left for us over here (uk) to the people immigrating, then we lose them to the immigrants in their own country ie: call centers in india and everything is made in china etc This makes no sense. You have moved to another country and are complaining that there are restrictions on your job opertunities. You are also complaining that other people can do exactly what you want to do. You are even complaining because people who stay in their own country can get jobs there. (Also they aren't immigrants if they are in their own country) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ean Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 i cant get a student grant over here because im not manx but you manxies and go to the uk and get one Yeah...we get one off our own Government, the money doesn't come from the UK Government so why do you expect the Manx Government to give you a grant when you are not Manx. If i went to France to study i wouldn't expect the French Government to give me money for doing so. and the iom might as well just be part of the uk because its pretty much the same apart from a few things changed in the law to make it 'different' and shoprite sells food from iceland which is a uk company, 99percent of the shops in town are from the uk, the only thing that makes it different is probably the word yessir. Way to win people over to your side......The IoM is different from the UK, i find it ridiculous that you believe it's the same as the UK purely because of the type of shops we have over here. McDonalds, KFC, Starbucks and GAP are American companies and the UK is littered with them, the UK should just be part if America because it's only a little bit different, got a few different laws and it's own Government etc but it's nearly the same because it's got some of the same shops (seeing the moronic logic yet?) and about all the polish people coming to the uk we didnt see all us trying to get over to poland, or we didnt see the polish rushing to turkey or places like that did we?! and even if we dont lose what jobs we have left for us over here (uk) to the people immigrating, then we lose them to the immigrants in their own country ie: call centers in india and everything is made in china etc Erm a lot of stuff is made in China and other areas of the world because they have economies that are heavily based on manufacturing. The UK economy is a service based economy, there is no real loss of jobs to stuff being made in China. Oh and We're not losing jobs to immigrants in their own country...by definition they are not an immigrant if they are in their own country, it is British companies you need to blame for outsourcing these jobs to areas where they can get cheap labour, it's all about the bank balance in the end. The loss of call centres to India is a worry for the UK economy but interestingly there are quite a few British people who have moved over to India to work in these call centres, so yeah maybe we didn't see "all us [sic] trying to get over to poland" but we are seeing a minority of people emigrating to other areas....in the same way that Poland saw a minority of people emigrating to the UK and other areas of the EU. Article for you to read Oh and tip for the future, try and break your post up into paragraphs, it tends to look like you're ranting inanely and is quite difficult to follow without them. P.S. Your attitude to immigrants is actually quite amusing when you consider you yourself are one, i bet you would be the first to chirp up when some idiot goes off on one about English people taking jobs off Manx people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesemonster2005 Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 Generally immigrants will only come to the UK if there is work to be found. Most people aren't going to move hundreds of kiolmetres across Europe simply to claim measly benefits. The jobs being taken by immigrants tend to be either low/un-skilled jobs (retail, hotel, catering) or highly-skilled jobs (doctors, technicians, dentists) all of which are in demand. If you feel that too many Polish people are moving to the British Isles (and only 0.1% have come) then this is partly because most other EU countries refused to let them work in their countries. Only UK, Ireland and Sweden allow EU citizens of the 2004 members to work in their countries. Also many Polish workers only go to Britain in summer when there are more jobs available. Because of the stupidly high cost of living in the UK most return to Poland for winter. In Spain there are upto 500,000 Britons and Irish people living there so it works both ways. What's out of order is business taking advantage of cheap workers. At the moment Irish Ferries are replacing workers with cheaper Polish workers which has caused a strike and occupation of several vessels. Workers from outside the British Isles should be here to fill gaps in the market not to work for fuck all wages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumlin Posted November 27, 2005 Author Share Posted November 27, 2005 For what a polish person can claim in benifits in the UK per week is more than they can earn in one month in poland, fact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 only 21 of the 133,000 east European migrant workers registered have signed on the dole. source Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumlin Posted November 27, 2005 Author Share Posted November 27, 2005 Just proves the point these Poles come in and undercut the British workers, pay no Tax or NI but when hard times come expect to be paid out by the DHSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Survivor Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 how do you know they don't pay tax or NI? if they have to get a permit, then they have to be paid legally, therefore they pay tax and NI - what the hell do you have against the poles? I work with one who is decent, hardworking and one hell of a nice chap. The british, and manx, go abroad and work and live in other countries, i bet there's some forum in some other country saying the same about you. I wonder who's going to start on about the Pakistanis, Indians and chinese that are working here too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesemonster2005 Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 For what a polish person can claim in benifits in the UK per week is more than they can earn in one month in poland, fact So what? If they're living in the UK their benefit money isn't going to go far. They come to work - very few claim any benefits. If you go to such hardship of learning languages, gaining skills and moving far from your home you're going to want to do well and make a life for yourself not scrounge. The people who could be accussed of scrounging are British-born-and-bred in their most part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesemonster2005 Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 Just proves the point these Poles come in and undercut the British workers, pay no Tax or NI but when hard times come expect to be paid out by the DHSS What proves the point? 21 out of 133,000 is tiny. From the extra NI and tax payments from the other 132,979 we can more than pay for the 21 who are probably looking for a job. Don't forget the other taxes they'll pay whilst here. 21/133,000 is a much much lower proportion than for the general population (1,000,000 [ish] from 30,000,000 [working population]) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyconcrete Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 There was a program on not so long back about Polish immigrants coming into the UK, particularly medical staff. They focused on a Polish doctor who was high up in the Polish hospital ranks but was invited to work in the UK as a night-shift A&E doctor which apparently wasn't as senior. He earned a lot in comparison to his old wages. There was however footage of hundreds of Eastern Europeans hanging round on 'recruitment' streets where tradesman would drive along and recruit labourers waiting on the road. The program focused on immigration and foreign workers. I've been stuck at Gatwick a couple of times in the last year, one time there was a large group of Luthuanians coming to work and see 'friends' on the Island, the second time a group of Eastern Europeans (not sure where) were heading over. The problem with a strong economy is low unemployment, this results in an influx of staff to fill the empty posts - typically the lower paid jobs or more undesirable roles. 'Immigrants' are happy to work and probably take great pride (in some cases) where some locals would turn their noses up. This is easy to spot at any Nursing home or even the hospital. The term immigrant in this context is used loosley, it could be someone from Poland or a high-unemployment area of the UK. I play local football and there are two Portugese players who play at the club, their families moved here because they heard there was work in the constuction industry. They now have friends who've also moved over, working for construction and cleaning firms. I did hear that the foreign kids need to take English as a Foreign language which comes out of the special needs budget at the DOE, although that was pub talk so take with a pinch of salt. The way I see it is, who can blame them? They can move to another country, work in better conditions, get a lot more pay and both them and their families enjoy a better quality of life? If there was mass-unemployment here and great opportunities in Poland - I'd be on the next flight. The problem (if there is one) rests with the government - eventually these people will want benefits, housing, support and healthcare. In a sense they're entitled to. If there's a decline in the finance industry as people predict and 'local' people start seeking alternative employment, this is where the animosity may set in. I've personally no problem with foreign workers, as long as they're paying there way like everybody else. I know too many local people who doss around and live off the benefits - if a Polish person takes pride in their work, works harders and pays their NI/Taxes then I don't have a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 Well spake Concrete! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steven ! Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 So given the choice, would you rather have, say as neighbours or working for your company: noisey drug taking inconsiderate scousers (or glagowegians/geordies/mancs/cockneys delete as appropriate) who would probably rob you blind given a chance and who know how to really take the p1ss out of the dhss system etc. . . . . or people from another country who want to work, who want to contribute to society, who appreciate the chance in life they have been given and who have consideration for others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumlin Posted November 28, 2005 Author Share Posted November 28, 2005 Its the same imigrants that now run the crime gangs in most of the big cities in the UK and Morecambe is only a boat trip from the Island, remember the LEGAL cockle pickers that were killed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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