Insulting? Or Realistic?

[silky]

Marcus,

 

In all fairness you are certainly not the only person that realises :

 

1) Benefit claimants in general do not receive a vast amount of money.

 

2) There are many genuinely needy people in the community that through no fault of their own have no option but to claim benefits.

 

I refer you to my poll regarding Benefit Fraud back in august here

 

The majority of people in this thread are not saying that it is wrong to claim benefits but that benefits in general (such as payouts towards heating costs) should only go to those in need and that the money should be used for the purpose that it was given.

 

Although I appreciate you have good intentions behind your views sometimes you tend to paint all people who claim benefits as "the underclass" a title which surely promotes a stigma rather than dispells it.

[marcus]

Marcus,

 

In all fairness you are certainly not the only person that realises :

 

1) Benefit claimants in general do not receive a vast amount of money.

 

2) There are many genuinely needy people in the community that through no fault of their own have no option but to claim benefits.

 

I refer you to my poll regarding Benefit Fraud back in august here

 

The majority of people in this thread are not saying that it is wrong to claim benefits but that benefits in general (such as payouts towards heating costs) should only go to those in need and that the money should be used for the purpose that it was given.

 

Although I appreciate you have good intentions behind your views sometimes you tend to paint all people who claim benefits as "the underclass" a title which surely promotes a stigma rather than dispells it.

 

Thanks for that.

I do get carried away a little....or a lot in the majority of cases.

 

I really don't see claiments of benefits as 'the underclass' far from it, i think the system in general does enough to reinforce that.

 

The milk token is a good example, indeed vouchers are a reasonable idea, but say going into the MEA, vouchers in hand might be difficult for some.

 

Discounted bills over the year, depending on circumstances might be a more sensible and discreet way of managing the system.

 

I'm sorry if i was a bit 'woolley' on this issue, but the very fact, that Mr. Rodan felt the need to point out that those on benefits, might be tempted to spend it on Christmas goodies, instead of fuel is a bit patronising to say the least, if thats what he thinks then some groundwork on the benefits system might give him some clues as to why people are tempted.

 

I think there's always going to be a stigma around benefits, from goverments presuming £120 a week is enough to live on, too hard working people pissed off in their jobs, thinking that those on benefits are on a good thing.

[Speckled Frost]

At last Silky, someone speaks sense.

 

Just as the needy have the right to receive state support so the rest of society should have the right to expect their money to be channelled where it's needed.

 

The phrase 'tax payers' money' is wholly reasonable and justified.

 

That money is accountable and in the public interest. We have every right to know where our taxes are going.

[Minnie]

I don't think anyone is disputing the fact that money for benefits comes from the tax payer, but it's not reasonable for 'Mr and Mrs Smith' to imply through their hardworking and tax paying that they keep 'Miss Jones and her 2 children' fed and clothed.

 

By the way....I'm not middle aged, middle class, fat or a slag....but thanks to kite for his worthwhile contribution to the thread...maybe we'll get some more of his top class posts when school kicks out

[marcus]

At last Silky, someone speaks sense.

 

Just as the needy have the right to receive state support so the rest of society should have the right to expect their money to be channelled where it's needed.

 

The phrase 'tax payers' money' is wholly reasonable and justified.

 

That money is accountable and in the public interest. We have every right to know where our taxes are going.

 

If it wasn't the IOM i'd fully agree, but as it is.....words like 'money is accountable' and is 'in the public interest' etc.

 

Well i don't need to explain.

 

Frankly, Rodan made an ill-judged comment in reply to a reasonable request by a fellow politician acting on behalf of his community.

[manxchatterbox]

wouldn't non-transfereable/cashable "heating" vouchers avoid the potential of the payment being used for something other than the intended purpose?

[cheesemonster2005]

but it is tax payers money,like it or not.

without the taxpayers there would be no benefit for the poor dears to claim

 

a stigma is good too,as it means ppl want to get off benefits as soon as possible as drag there lazy asses to work

 

Yes it's tax-payers money but so is everything. Everyone pays taxes even those on benefits. The vast majority of those who rely on benefits have paid taxes themselves in the past. The welfare state is something we should all be proud of. Would you rather a system like that in the USA where everyone fends for themselves, where the poor have no access to legal aid or medical treatment and where there is no guaranteed minimum wage?

 

We pay taxes through our wages, from bank interest, on everything we buy (most things at least) and for nearly every transaction we make.

 

Vouchers are embarrasing and degrading. I've seen them used in the UK and it's akin to making someone where a badge with 'poor person' written on it.

 

Only a very small percentage of people are scrounging or breaking the rules. More people are probably guilty of fiddling their tax returns and not paying enough taxes - these are the people who should be punished.

[ans]

Because not everyone uses gas. People use oil, electricty or coal.

[scoobe]

I think its fair a heating supplement should be spent on heating, there arent that many providers so why not send a form out saying do you use oil/gas/coal etc, who do you buy it from, then the money could be directly sent to the suppliers on the claimants behalf to put their accounts in credit. I think Mr Rodan was just being realistic, the idea of the supplement is to make sure people have heating after all.

[kite]

and your a fat middle aged,middle class slag,but whose pointing that out ?

Awww, thanks

 

I've got some spare dummies here, I always have some in for the babies I look after.....pm me your address and I'll be sure to send one on to you.

haha your the one resorting to insults darling,just giving you a tatse of you own medicene,didnt like it did ya?

 

yes cheesemonster I would rather a system where there is no welfare state,I dont agree with socialism,load of crap that lets the week and unfit thrive. the week and benefit scroungers are the ones having all the babies to,whilst hardworking people are being sensible about it and waiting until they can afford to have babies,the thick and lazy are shooting them out one after another

[cheesemonster2005]

haha your the one resorting to insults darling,just giving you a tatse of you own medicene,didnt like it did ya?

 

yes cheesemonster I would rather a system where there is no welfare state,I dont agree with socialism,load of crap that lets the week and unfit thrive. the week and benefit scroungers are the ones having all the babies to,whilst hardworking people are being sensible about it and waiting until they can afford to have babies,the thick and lazy are shooting them out one after another

 

Let's just hope that you're never without a job and money then. Some weak and unfit people may take advantage of the benefit system but ther majority of claimants are decent people who have certainly paid their fair share of taxes in their time.

 

Maybe you should go and live in the USA where there is less support for the unfortunate, where abortion is discouraged and where you are more likely to be jobless if you're black, gay or old.

 

Without the welfare state we'd also have no pension system which is relied upon by most people to support them through old age and it helps to increase longivity rather than us all dying by the time we reach 60.

[Lonan3]

and your a fat middle aged,middle class slag,but whose pointing that out ?

Awww, thanks

 

I've got some spare dummies here, I always have some in for the babies I look after.....pm me your address and I'll be sure to send one on to you.

haha your the one resorting to insults darling,just giving you a tatse of you own medicene,didnt like it did ya?

 

yes cheesemonster I would rather a system where there is no welfare state,I dont agree with socialism,load of crap that lets the week and unfit thrive. the week and benefit scroungers are the ones having all the babies to,whilst hardworking people are being sensible about it and waiting until they can afford to have babies,the thick and lazy are shooting them out one after another

 

[kite]

" Maybe you should go and live in the USA '

 

em,no,this is my country and im entitled to my own opinion of it thanks

[RC-Drift.com]

I don't have a prob with the way the money is spent, after all some of these people will already be dipping into their xmas money to pay the heating bill now!

[Minnie]

haha your the one resorting to insults darling,just giving you a tatse of you own medicene,didnt like it did ya?

Oh, but I did like it, very much so.....you're such value for money. Maybe your lovely way with words is some type of mating ritual with you oaf-like beings of a lower intelligence.

 

I realise you don't have the capability/intelligence of offering any valuable points in this thread.....but, hey, you keep on with the posts as they're just giving us more proof of that.