manxchatterbox Posted December 4, 2005 Share Posted December 4, 2005 is it worth the time and trouble trying to save the four guys seized in Iraq? Those christian missionary guys all knew the risks so why should anyone be surprised or try to help if they get seized and then executed..maybe their executions will serve as a clear message to others...leave the place alone and let the Iraqis kill themselves...they don't need anyone's help...they were one of the first civilizations...surely so long as they don't threaten anyone else they can be left alone to develop or destroy themselves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesemonster2005 Posted December 4, 2005 Share Posted December 4, 2005 is it worth the time and trouble trying to save the four guys seized in Iraq? Those christian missionary guys all knew the risks so why should anyone be surprised or try to help if they get seized and then executed..maybe their executions will serve as a clear message to others...leave the place alone and let the Iraqis kill themselves...they don't need anyone's help...they were one of the first civilizations...surely so long as they don't threaten anyone else they can be left alone to develop or destroy themselves? It's worth saving anybody but christian missionaries should be aware of the dangers and should know how stupid their actions are. I hate the christian idea of converting people. Were they actually there to convert people or were they providing aid relief too? Americans like to fund aid organisations which have a christian mission - this will only surely provoke further attacks. Trying to convert Iraqis will only provoke more violence. What's needed is employment, infastructure and security. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted December 4, 2005 Share Posted December 4, 2005 Anybody who goes to Iraq must be aware of what is happening there, and therefore must understand that there will be a chance of being shot, or abducted, or worse. From what reports I have heard the people abducted work for an "aid organisation" - don't know if it's a Christian one or not. Before this war started, Iraq was a very secular country even some of Saddam's top advisors were Christians - Tariq Aziz for one (not sure on the spelling there!). All of the sectarian killings that have happened since the war began, are a direct product of the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Flynn Posted December 4, 2005 Share Posted December 4, 2005 No one deserves to be taken hostage and executed. Presumably these hostages were trying to bring humanitarian relief to Iraq. However if they were also trying to convert they have picked a very inappropriate time. As Christians they will understand suffering is part of their calling but they needn't act foolishly by putting themselves in harm's way. However we must not give up on a rescue deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxchatterbox Posted December 4, 2005 Author Share Posted December 4, 2005 think the Govt in London should come out and say no chance are we getting involved with any rescue of right wing christian fundamentalists who go to Iraq and ignore the security situation - then maybe others won't be so keen to go - whereas if the group are "rescued" others will think its okay to go as the Govt will look after us.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesemonster2005 Posted December 4, 2005 Share Posted December 4, 2005 think the Govt in London should come out and say no chance are we getting involved with any rescue of right wing christian fundamentalists who go to Iraq and ignore the security situation - then maybe others won't be so keen to go - whereas if the group are "rescued" others will think its okay to go as the Govt will look after us.. Whereever Americans go, you'll find Christian fundamentalists. Americans christians are as bad as muslim fundamentalists. They support the death penalty, discrimination against gays, invasion of other nations (i.e. Venezuala), restriction of birth control and the worst thing of all - the Republican Party! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amadeus Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 A German woman, named as Susanne Osthoff, has also been kidnapped in Iraq recently. She is an archaeologist and humanitarian aid worker, who lived in Iraq for a number of years and was kidnapped last week. News stories about her kidnapping, however, read slightly different to any stories concerning the abduction of US or UK citizens: Also on Friday, radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr condemned the kidnapping in Iraq of German archaeologist Susanne Osthoff and called for her immediate release. 'The kidnapping of the German archaeologist is not a civilized act,' Muqtada said in a statement issued by his office in the Shiite holy city of Najaf. 'This act is not at all in line with the values of Islam which call for chastity, peace and tolerance,' he said, and noted Osthoff was 'a friend of the Iraqi people and a citizen of the country that opposed from the beginning the war on Iraq'. In case the name Muqtada al-Sadr doesn't mean anything to you, that's this fella, and he seems to be rather high on the political power ladder in Iraq, which usually stands in the more extreme corner of politics and beliefs down there. It seems, that in this war for the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people, the "soldiers" that are most liked, are the ones that didn't take part in it in the first place.... You can say a lot of bad things about our Ex-leader Mr Schroeder back home, but keeping the Vaterland out of this oil-and-money based war was definitely a good thing... think the Govt in London should come out and say no chance are we getting involved with any rescue of right wing christian fundamentalists who go to Iraq and ignore the security situation - then maybe others won't be so keen to go - whereas if the group are "rescued" others will think its okay to go as the Govt will look after us.. Depends on what they really did down there: If they were doing aid work, and basically trying to sort out the mess that George W and his lapdog Third Term Tony have caused in the first place, then any attempt should be made to rescue them, as it's our (ok, your, as in the British) government's fault that they had to go there in the first place. And even if they weren't doing any aid work, and were just showing off their collection of crosses and bibles, then the government should still attempt to rescue them, simply because: A: It's the government's job to look after it's citizens, especially in situations like this, and you would expect the same treatment if you got into trouble for whatever reason. B: Any attempt should be made to save human life whenever and whereever possible, simply because it's the right thing to do. and, most importantly C: How else can you give them the biggest dressing down in the history of mankind, and portray them as an extremely stupid example of the human race, and highlight the dangers of going to places like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Flynn Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 Whatever views they hold - and I disagree with a lot of fundamentalist views and also any idea if we give you aid you are morally obliged to sign up to our faith - aid should have no strings attached - I still believe they must be rescued otherwise the killers will think they can go on taking hostages. I stand to be corrected but didn't The Archbishop of Canterbury's envoy Terry Waite get captured because he wouldn't take advice on safety some years ago. Unfortunately the Aid Agencies seem to believe because they are trying to do good, no one will touch them. This makes them a soft target and in fact provides more media coverage for the hostage takers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 There are very few Christians amongst Christians. And for anyone to write that there is little to chose between Fundamentalist Christians and mohammedan ‘fundamentalists’ simply tells me that he knows little about Christianity and NOTHING about isalm. For one thing there is no such thing as a mohammedan fundamentalist – simply the devout and observant as for there to be a fundamentalist it would infer that there must be correspondingly non-fundamental mohammedans, those who do not follow all the dictates of islam, which is simply not the case. It can not be. The point about islam is that it is binary. You either are a moslem and follow all the koran teaches, or you do not follow all that is in the koran and so you are NOT a moslem. There are various sects but all share a common principle and any devout mohammedan has no option but to follow the teaching of the koran. Anyone who does not is implicitly apostate and so themselves subject to koranic law and ‘justice’. But to the case in point --- It’s my opinion that attempts should be made to make it clear that there will be no deal. The claim that these people that have been kidnapped are even believed to be spies is vacuous. There are people in Iraq who will play every card that they can in this battle and playing the propaganda card combined with showing how utterly ruthless they are is one example of this being done. The message being sent is intended for both the UK general public as part of an ongoing war for hearts and minds (pull our boys out now!) and to their own supporters in the UK (look how strong we are – join in). Personally I think that non-combatants should not be permitted to enter theatres of war. They cloud issues if they are from the press and they get in the way if they are representing ‘humanity agencies’. These guys? Whatever. Let what will happen happen. Laissez les bon temps rouler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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