manxchatterbox Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 On MR Agenda I just heard Pam Crowe revealing/confirming to David Callister that the IOM Post Office Pension Fund is in deficit - but she didn't say by how much or why..but did say the fund "needs topping up" Surely to god is this another financial scandal the taxpayers are going to have to foot the bill for ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryMcCann Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 A lot of pension funds are in defecit at the moment. I doubt there is any real scandal. Most rely on the performance of the stock market in order to generate the necessary income to pay the pensions. If that underperforms then there is a shortfall and a top up is needed. Post Office staff should be thankful they have a guaranteed pension. Not many people do nowadays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lisner Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 David Callister did a good interview. No matter how much Mrs Crowe tried her charms on him, he just wasn't having any of her steering the interview. There are one or two could learn from his style up there on Douglas Head. For example, he asked if the IoM post workers were the highest paid in Europe (as apparently has been widely expressed/rumoured. As you would expect Mrs C said they were well paid and deserved to be as should anybody on the Isle of Man should be well paid ( ...?!) etc. blah blah. But she didn't answer the question. So to the annoyanceof the lady that is not for listening, he asked her again. No direct answer was forthcoming of course but in so doing she inadvertently allowed David Callister to make a point. Well done DC. With her misplaced emphasis on the wrong words and her persistent and overbearing tone, I believe Mrs Crowe went to the same school of talking as Davie McWilliams who used to regularly feature on the Mannin Line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxchatterbox Posted December 5, 2005 Author Share Posted December 5, 2005 I accept that the "deficit" may be due to poor performance of investments....but that said I can't belive that, with the current expertise on the board, the pension fund trustees haven't been monitoring what's been happening.... and so why haven't they re-invested into something with better performance? If however the deficit isn't due to investment performance then there is a problem, a serious problem. At the moment it sounds to me as though the organisation may have taken a pension holiday from making contributions... perhaps because at some time or other in the past the pension fund was in surplus...and over time the surplus has become the deficit but contributions weren't continued 'cos there was no money available (post office reduced profits/operating losses). As the IOM Post is a statutory board does this mean that the taxpayers will have to provide the top up that Pam Crowe was talikng about? and if so how much? What would happen if instead of IOM Post being a statutory board it was a private business?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugger Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 A lot of pension funds are in defecit at the moment. I doubt there is any real scandal. Most rely on the performance of the stock market in order to generate the necessary income to pay the pensions. If that underperforms then there is a shortfall and a top up is needed. Post Office staff should be thankful they have a guaranteed pension. Not many people do nowadays Guaranteed by whom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxchatterbox Posted December 5, 2005 Author Share Posted December 5, 2005 and I agree with lisner about DC interviewing...well done to him..I don't recall this issue of pension fund deficit having been mentioned previously anywhere (will hold up hands / stand to be corrected) so if its new then even more well done to DC - (if it is news it will be interesting to see who follows it up... MR news people / the newspaper / or an MHK) I am wondering if there will perhaps be any leakage of figures on this forum?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryMcCann Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 A lot of pension funds are in defecit at the moment. I doubt there is any real scandal. Most rely on the performance of the stock market in order to generate the necessary income to pay the pensions. If that underperforms then there is a shortfall and a top up is needed. Post Office staff should be thankful they have a guaranteed pension. Not many people do nowadays Guaranteed by whom? The guarantee means they get a percentage of their final salary as their pension and the contributions throughout their working life are adjusted either by deducting more from their pay or the employer paying more in themselves to meet any shortfall (or get a refund if there is a surplus). That's not to say it cannot all go tits up. Ask anyone who used to work for that nice Robert Maxwell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugger Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 I guess I was wondering whether the buck stopped at the Post Office, or would get kicked up to the IOM taxpayer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxchatterbox Posted December 5, 2005 Author Share Posted December 5, 2005 Ah Tugger.. I'm with you... who does "guarantee" that the pension fund of a statutory board is able to meet its commitments? hmmm...let me think about that....a statutory board is part of government....government is a "business" which raises money by charging taxpayers to provide a return for its "shareholders" being the whole of the people...so.. (help am getting lost...no tea yet and brain needs fuel...) has the make up of the board of the Post Office changed? recently or in the last year or so?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxchatterbox Posted December 5, 2005 Author Share Posted December 5, 2005 have been giving this some more thought.....and found some commenst that say while some private sector businesses have been affected by huge pension black holes, the pressure will be less on local authorities. This relates to UK local authoritoies - which could be transposed to read as IOM statutory boards? "It's different to the private sector because a private company might go out of business. We're always in business so, we can plan to pay off our deficit over a long period." Most councils planned to reduce the deficit incrementally over a 20-year period, she said. The deficit will be reduced over a longer period of time in several ways. "There may be some increases in employer contributions to funds," she said, but those will be made in a "phased way" and these comments attributed to Helen Kilpatrick, the chairwoman of the Cipfa pensions panel, which assesses the state of funds every three years. So, I suppose it depends how much the deficit is ??? and what it will cost the taxpayers to top up the posties pension fund over a period...cos they will hardly be askking the posties to pay extra..or will they?? and if they do what will the posties say?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mission Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 and if they do what will the posties say?? Answers on a postcard please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxchatterbox Posted December 5, 2005 Author Share Posted December 5, 2005 I was hoping some "postie" would post comments here....not send a postcard..and if they did who to?? I just don't see them paying more in if its a cock-up by "the management" for not having made sure they weren't generating enough to be able to properly fund the scheme... I'm also thinking there might be some people who have knowledge of the deficit figures who could post them up - can people do that?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not the Comfy Chair Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 The principal reason that pension funds are in deficit is not a result of management investment errors. The problem is that we are all living longer. Although, (on average), investment performance is good, we are now expected to live much longer than we were a few years ago. As a consequence, the actuaries consider that the pension funds have to be much, much bigger, and the rate of investment growth cannot match this need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesemonster2005 Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 The principal reason that pension funds are in deficit is not a result of management investment errors. The problem is that we are all living longer. Surely the solution would be a government campaign to encourage smoking, excess drinking and hard drug abuse. That'll sort the pension mess out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxchatterbox Posted December 6, 2005 Author Share Posted December 6, 2005 an if part of the £9million cut in the Health Service budget for 2006/2007 relates to ambulance services or to other hospital services then the mortality rate will also go up - helping to solve the pension funding ...but those posties are generally fit blokes... so I'm not thinking many will be too willing to keel over and miss out on what they've been promised..I could be wrong though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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