Great News

[Rog]

Section 28 was a disaster because it prevented education authorities from mentioning homosexuality. The policy may not have forbid this but because it was so vague many steered clear of talking about these topics whatsoever. It was a personal attack on a minority of the population.

 

Now that really is a load of baloney.

 

All section 28 did was to prohibit the PROMOTION of homosexuality. The lie that it in any way prohibited discussion of homosexuality was put about those with vested interest in fighting Thatcher or promoting homosexuality as being equal to proper sexual relationships.

 

Just as the Community Charge was presented as a poll tax – which it wasn’t.

 

The reason it was so hated by socialists was that it made the huge costs of socialist local government painfully visible to the people who voted socialist council’s into office.

[cheesemonster2005]

Section 28 was a disaster because it prevented education authorities from mentioning homosexuality. The policy may not have forbid this but because it was so vague many steered clear of talking about these topics whatsoever. It was a personal attack on a minority of the population.

 

Now that really is a load of baloney.

 

All section 28 did was to prohibit the PROMOTION of homosexuality. The lie that it in any way prohibited discussion of homosexuality was put about those with vested interest in fighting Thatcher or promoting homosexuality as being equal to proper sexual relationships.

 

As I said section 28 didn't forbid these things but it was interpreted as such because it was vague - people never really knew what 'promotion' meant.

[Alex]

Something tells me you don't even know what facism is.

 

It's a shame you have so much rage about things that happened before you were even born and are still yet to understand.

Well said. I'd have to agree that Thatcher was one of the best PMs the UK ever had, she did what needed to be done when no-one else would. She was right about the Falklands, the miners, the unions, even the poll tax, although maybe that wasn't perfect. In years to come she'll always be remembered as one of the great leaders.

 

Hating someone and wishing them dead because you disagree with their politics? Says a lot more about you than anything....

[P.K.]

I personally hate Thatcher for two reasons.

 

Firstly her stupid policies indicated that the UK was giving up the Falklands which led the Argentinians to invade. She then took all the glory from the success of the military to stay in power. An amazing PR exercise. She causes the invasion and then revels in getting the islands back. She even ordered the unneccessary storming and subsequent deaths at Goose Green for political reasons. At the end of it instead of giving the islands up as was the original intention they now cost a fortune and will continue to do so!

 

Secondly she was the first British PM to look out exclusively for that segment of the population that voted for her. The rest could go hang. Now I would agree that things were not good and a lot needed doing but she did it with no regard whatsoever for the social cost. Simply because those affected would never vote for her in a million years.

 

Basically she had no scruples whatsoever about staying in power for the sake of it. I hope she burns in hell.

[Charles Flynn]

As for the I.O.M. I will always maintain that our tourist industry seriously declined after 1980 because of her policies decimating much of the U.K.'s manufacturing industry. It may well be it would have happened in any case but the speed of change and fortunes were very painful for the Isle of Man and others in the affected areas in the U.K.

 

One of the main downfalls of the IOM tourist industry was Erie going over to the Punt , it made it far to expensive for the Irish familys to come to the Isle of Man.

 

Don't know if Maggie's policys made much difference IMO but only being a snip of a lad at the time i didn't really care as long as i got my ice cream!!

 

Maggie's policy made a tremendous difference to our tourist industry. I was in business at the time and I know my retail turnover from the tourist industry delined by 33% in 1981 - all of which was due to Maggie and her policies. It was also the start of a major decline in the hotel trade. Our Manx Government had serious difficulties as a result of this with very little in our reserves for most of the 80's.

 

As for the punt many of the Irish people came over here to bank their savings in our local banks . The Irish at the time were one of our biggest spenders - all the shops looked forward to the day trippers as they spent far more than those from anywhere else.

 

Now having said all this I have no time for making Maggie a 'hate' figure. She put her policies to her own electorate and they supported her. I can live with that. Times change and we might disagree with some of them now - we might even get terribly emotional about them - but to rant and rave will do no good. Maggie

affected my profits but I applaud her leadership which in the main got the U.K. out of the economic doldrums and set Britain up for the World power we are today after years when Britain was in serious economic trouble. Without Maggie the economic successes of recent years could not have happened.

[Rog]

Maggie's policy made a tremendous difference to our tourist industry. I was in business at the time and I know my retail turnover from the tourist industry delined by 33% in 1981 - all of which was due to Maggie and her policies. It was also the start of a major decline in the hotel trade. Our Manx Government had serious difficulties as a result of this with very little in our reserves for most of the 80's.

 

Could you enlarge on this please?

 

What in particular that can be placed at Thatchers door caused the negative impact on the Manx tourism?

[Observer]

I totally agree with Rog (prior page - haven't bothered quoting it) Top post.

 

The analogy of the surgeon says it all....

 

To slag off Thatcher is like slagging off the surgeon who has saved you from cancer because he had to perform an operation that hurt.

 

*Edited to quote, as it is totally spot on.

[Lonan3]

I personally hate Thatcher for two reasons.

 

Firstly her stupid policies indicated that the UK was giving up the Falklands which led the Argentinians to invade. She then took all the glory from the success of the military to stay in power. An amazing PR exercise. She causes the invasion and then revels in getting the islands back. She even ordered the unneccessary storming and subsequent deaths at Goose Green for political reasons. At the end of it instead of giving the islands up as was the original intention they now cost a fortune and will continue to do so!

 

Secondly she was the first British PM to look out exclusively for that segment of the population that voted for her. The rest could go hang. Now I would agree that things were not good and a lot needed doing but she did it with no regard whatsoever for the social cost. Simply because those affected would never vote for her in a million years.

 

Basically she had no scruples whatsoever about staying in power for the sake of it. I hope she burns in hell.

 

I never really thought I'd find myself saying this but, apart from the last sentence - I totally agree with PK's post.

I can also. (Heaven help me!) with one of Rog's thoughts - the comparison between Thatcher and Churchill; both appearing to be excellent in war time, but pretty much of a disaster in peacetime governments.

As for her illness - I don't care much either way. She's just a slightly dotty old lady whose time may or may not be up. Her legacy, however, I consider to be almost entirely negative.

[Charles Flynn]

Rog,

 

The particular policies I am referring to are the decline and closures of the major manufacturing industries such as the car industry, cotton mills etc. All of a sudden most of the people in the mill towns were unemployed. Now you may say this was necessary because the UK was no longer competitive in the world wide markets but it affected the I.O.M. badly.

 

I know I lived through it - nothing beats experience in these matters. Others may have read about it through text books or newspapers but some of us were at the sharp end and had to change our businesses substantially which I accept is one of the joys of business life.

[Chinahand]

Margaret Thatcher transformed Britain.

 

She changed it from a bankrupt society in decline into a flexible modern economy. She put personal choice and responsibility at the core of her politics and that message still dominates the political agenda today. Tony Blair had to invent New Labour, but Maggie created the New Britain that made the old socialist dogmas of old Labour irrelevant.

 

I applaud her for doing that and see her as one of great political leaders of the post war era not just in Britain, but in the world. Her policies of privatizations and introducing market reforms into the economy had far wider influence than anything to come out of the policies of Reagan (who never had to deal with such issues in lassez faire America). Ronnie may have bankrupted the Soviet Union, but Maggie road tested the economic ideas to rebuild it. Her policies have provided a blue print and inspiration for the reforms in Eastern Europe, China and beyond.

 

I always find it slightly laughable when people talk about industrial decline under Maggie. Go to the National Statistics Website Link here and search on Manufacturing Output: in the second quarter of 1979 the Manufacturing index stood at 79.9, when she left office it was at 90.5 (a 13% increase above inflation) its now at 101.4. Manufacturing Output grows and most likely will continue to grow in the UK. The only issue under Maggie was that other areas of the economy grew even faster: hence manufacturing has become a smaller part of GDP.

 

But also the cost of manufactured goods has dropped, so for every inflation adjusted pound spent on a manufactured good you can now buy many more products than you could prior to 1979. UK manufacturing is earning (even after taking inflation into account) far more money and producing far far more items than prior to 1979.

 

Even more importantly the productivity of that manufacturing has grown even more quickly and that is the rub every one complains about. Manufacturing now employs fewer people; BUT those who work in it are far more productive than they were before Maggie came to power.

 

But unemployment hasn't increased; people have left manufacturing, but the result hasn't been economic meltdown rather jobs and wealth was created as new opportunities opened up in other sectors of the economy mainly the service sectors etc. That transformation was incredibly painful, but prior to Maggie hundreds of thousands of people worked in jobs that destroyed wealth. The government had to subsidize them more than they produced in value. Maggie ended that; it was incredibly painful. The Yanks use the term creative destruction and think its a brilliant idea ... it is ... but not for the people who's jobs are going under.

 

The recessions under Maggie had a massive human cost, BUT that change was temporary; the UK emerged stronger and better for it.

 

Cheesemonster you are wrong on all the major points you make: Privatization transformed UK industry; selling off council houses created wealth on a huge scale for those who previously had had no access to that wealth, take almost any measure; number of operations, cost per operation, patients treated, drugs administered; they all improved under Maggie (Blair's last reform attempt before heading off to retirement is meant to be continuing the health market reforms started under Maggie and Major, but old Labour influences and the awkward squad will probably stymie it ... Blair can't even push through a tiny percentage of the needed reforms that Maggie did).

 

If you look at Britain today it is vastly better than it was in 1979; the succeeding prime ministers have only kept a steady course, Maggie turned the country around 90 degrees and got it sailing in the right direction again. A massive recession in her first term was the cost we had to pay, and I'm not denegrating the human cost that resulted, but the end result was worth it.

 

Cheesemonster I presume your hatred comes from those scared by the difficult years she did create, but the social scars and future of Britain would have been far far worse if Maggie hadn't come to power with the strength of character to push through her agenda. I hope her either a speedy recovery or a peaceful end.

[Tempus Fugit]

I wondered if she felt ill when she got the bill from the hairdresser, or maybe someone mentioned what Carol had been doing in the jungle !.

Maybe she feels better now Carol can afford the coiffure ;-)

[Alex]

Excellent post Chinahand.

 

I hope her either a speedy recovery or a peaceful end.

She's gone home with a clean bill of health:

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/4508946.stm

[x-in-man]

STOP PRESS - Maggie - while in Hospital had an ass hole transplant.

 

More STOP PRESS - The ass hole rejected her.

[Virginia P]

Spot on PK. For a right wing bastard you certainly have some occasional perfect insights.

 

Chinahand - didn't bother to read your Rogisms.

 

Mr. Flynn - stop trying to pretend to be so reasonable, and look up the definition of 'hypocrite'

 

 

Is she dead yet?

 

I have some fireworks to let off, come the hour.

[P.K.]

right wing bastard

Flatterer.

 

STOP PRESS - Maggie - while in Hospital had an ass hole transplant.

 

More STOP PRESS - The ass hole rejected her.

1960 wants that joke back....