ans Posted December 20, 2005 Share Posted December 20, 2005 Great stuff ans, always there with an interesting opinion eh? I love to read about people who are ANGRY on the INTERNETS about THINGS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boy With Horns Posted December 20, 2005 Author Share Posted December 20, 2005 Look, I'm trying to get a serious point across here about something I believe to be barbaric and cruel. You obviously aren't interested in any way, so why post on this? Unless you're Chinese, I can't see a reason why you are getting so wound up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesemonster2005 Posted December 20, 2005 Share Posted December 20, 2005 Oh, there's a difference between not being politically correct and just plain old racist. Just so you know. Un-pc, racism, call it what you like. I'm angry about this issue and as it's happening in China, that's where I'll focus my anger. What am I supposed to say? "The Chinese are skinning little cats and dogs alive to make money, but I'm sure they don't mean it. They may be cruel to animals but they make great fried rice." To us dogs and cats are cute little pets - I have a cat myself. To others they can be food or of no use to people. We eat beef, lamb and chicken which is unacceptable to some cultures. I don't see how the Chinese can be labelled as evil for this. Unless you're Chinese, I can't see a reason why you are getting so wound up. If someone called a gay person a f***** or a black person a name - that would bother me because it's offensive. I'm neither gay nor black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casino Crazy Posted December 20, 2005 Share Posted December 20, 2005 Look, I'm trying to get a serious point across here about something I believe to be barbaric and cruel. You obviously aren't interested in any way, so why post on this? Unless you're Chinese, I can't see a reason why you are getting so wound up. They can do whatever the fuck they like it's their country. If you care about it so much why don't you plough some money into a campaign or something!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dontlookbehindyou Posted December 20, 2005 Share Posted December 20, 2005 I think it's terrible, I felt sickened looking at those pictures. What ever country or race who are doing this is not really the point but if the general public are buying what they think is fake fur which turns out to be real then that's misleading and taking away the choice of opting for fake fur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dontlookbehindyou Posted December 20, 2005 Share Posted December 20, 2005 I've got fake fur ( I hope) on my handbag, now I'm wondering if it really is fake, doesn't feel soft enough to be real fur. I bought if from Principles and it says it was made in China Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonan3 Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 I've got fake fur ( I hope) on my handbag, now I'm wondering if it really is fake, doesn't feel soft enough to be real fur. I bought if from Principles and it says it was made in China If the fur stands up when a dog comes close....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dontlookbehindyou Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 Pmsl very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 This type of thing is horrid, but I think your being a little unfair on the Chinese. Anywhere that is poor is going to have low standards of animal welfare and China is no exception, but go to Thailand, Indonesia or Nigeria and you'll see similar things. I used to live in South Africa and the tradition amoungst the Zulu was that the goat had to scream out in pain to release its soul ... not a nice sound! Yep I've seen horrible sights in China; especially outside exotic resturants where they keep a little menagerie of animals to be picked out by the clientel for eating. A small live deer with its leg broken from the trap that caught it with the bones protruding through the skin; snakes with wounds and broken backs; bunnies still alive, but already skinned ready for the pot. I don't really know what to say ... its cruel. But don't pretend our record on animal welfare was any good when we were poor; our standards then would be described today as cruel and so was bear bating, dog and cock fighting etc. These were a huge part of proud British culture until well into the 20th century and dog fighting still is in some areas. And I can't imagine what a victorian slaughter house was like ... basically for anything smaller than a pig they didn't have them ... everything was slaughtered at home and don't pretend it was always humane or hygenic. And I'm not just talking about food, but the fur and leather trade as well. Manchester 150 years ago = China today when it comes to open cry markets and animals slaughtered on the hoof. With development will come regulations and people will also demand better hygene etc. I think the pictures are just from an open street market and I'm not convinced they are for the fur trade, I reckon its food. The dog is slaughtered and taken home fresh ... I've seen it, I've eaten the result [... now thats another topic]. China does have a terrifying indifference to suffering ... I think its the result of taking a billion people, giving them a history involving 200 years of anarchy and chaos, the wars against the Japanese, a civil war, the massacres and executions of the revolution, 30 million people dying of starvation in the 1950s, the brutality of the cultural revolution and now a system where there is almost no welfare support whatsoever. If things go wrong you can end up on the streets in temperatures well below freezing with little more than a blanket to wear ... I see such things almost daily here. People can only help the people immediately close to them; for every relation or friend that a person provides clothing shelter and food to when things go wrong there are a thousand people they don't have the resources to help and so must just be indifferent to ... It drives people mad at levels far higher than in the west; as measured by scitzoprehenia rates, and attempted and actual suicide numbers. Faced with a situation where human welfare isn't effective animal welfare is so low on the list of priorities it never gets a look in ... and so animals are subject to cruelty on a huge scale ... for food, for money, for what ever motive. Animals are a commodity that are dealt with arbitarily and often cruelly. I don't think it will last or is something distinctly chinese. A strange example: the Chinese are very wary buying tainted meat ... hence the fact most of them want to see the animal alive and kicking and then take the meat home still warm. For super markets its really difficult ... how to convince the customer that the prepacked meat is fresh ... the solution is a video I saw a bit ago. There are the cute little pigs eating their maze pellets; there are the cut little pigs being washed down and cleaned; there are the cute little pigs being put onto a van .... here my western sensibilities expected the video to fade to a nice pork chop and a smiling cook ... Oh how wrong I was ... there is the nice cute pig being electricuted ... there it is being hung up ... gutted and slaughtered ... you had the full trip through the abatoir being shown to you on a tv positioned right above the meat stand. It was a modern hygenic slaughter house ... the supermarket was clearly very proud of it ... and in order to get the customer to trust them was having to show it off in all its detail ... a detail you'd never get in Shoprite! In 30 years time there will be slaughter inspectors and fur trade regulations and cruelty will be much much lower... but I doubt its going to happen particularly soon. BUT globalization will bring it straight into your living room and high street, and as a result suppliers will react more quickly. The buyer for Principles or whatever will have ethics codes and check lists and will dread the day a letter arrives from Animal Welfare, Green Peace, or whatever ... the result is that western demands and standards are, however imperfectly, put up the supply chain into places totally unprepared for them. The result is that animal welfare is an issue for buyers of western consumer products and as a result it will be an issue in China early than it would be if it emerged endogenously ... of course the unscrupulous will try and get round it; and that is what this topic is all about, but the fact that we can be debating it shows an awareness exists and measures will almost certain be taken to reduce it; which is a good thing ... maybe it'll be less than 30 years ... but don't hold your breath ... the world's a cruel and indifferent place. You want to do something about it ... email the largest retail chains in the IOM/UK demanding a copy of there animal welfare code and asking what measures their buyers take to enforce it [ie about half an hours work via google]... I'm pretty certain it'll exist (if they don't its a nice story in the Courier ... Manx activist puts pressure on ????) and the more pressure put on them to show they care the less the risk that your fake fur will turn out not to be!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dontlookbehindyou Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 Good post and I think I will get in touch with Principles and see what they say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinkydevil Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 Others might want to know about this. Again? http://www.manxforums.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=8842 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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