The Old Git Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 Some of the "evidence" that I've seen varies from wafer thin to complete nonsense The video doesn't do anything for me. So Bush is not quick witted and fast to react? So the US is slow to respond to a previously unheard of situation? We saw how badly they reacted to the New Orleans hurricane recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollocks Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 Some of the "evidence" that I've seen varies from wafer thin to complete nonsense The video doesn't do anything for me. So Bush is not quick witted and fast to react? So the US is slow to respond to a previously unheard of situation? We saw how badly they reacted to the New Orleans hurricane recently. Unheard of situation?! Did you completely miss one of the many important points provided by that video? Please read http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/Northwoods.html as mentioned in the clip. "2. A series of well coordinated incidents will be planned to take place in and around Guantanamo to give genuine appearance of being done by hostile Cuban forces." "Unheard of situation", my ass. Anyways, I'd never expect you to take anything posted here into account, considering what's written in your sig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTool Posted January 2, 2006 Author Share Posted January 2, 2006 Well also the bohemian club has over 2500 members and not one of them is black, so what does that tell you about Mr Bush and his new orleans response, where the black population numbers some 65% to70%. What you need to do is read the websites all they are saying is we want answers to certain questions. I personally would like to see some of questions answered at the minute its hard to make you mind up one way or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 There was a very good documentary on Sky One this evening, "Secrets of the CIA" charting their 60 year history and their involvement in various world events from, at their genesis, providing immunity to Nazis, through Cuba, Che Guevara, Nicaragua, Afghanistan, Angola, Cambodia, Vietnam, Chile, Iran, etc. etc. In fact, there seems to be few world events that the CIA have not had a finger in during their history. Many of the contributors were ex senior CIA personnel, as well as highly respected jounalists and commentators. One of the more shocking revelations was their involvement in Air America assisting Laos opium producers to export heroin to Vietnam, much of which ended up addicting a substantial number of the US forces personnel fighting the Vietnam war! Also, assisting in the sale of arms to Iran to fund the Nicaraguan Contras against the Sandanistas. We can all remember these events unfolding, but until given a retrospective scrutiny, it is hard to understand at the time just what involvement the CIA had. If ever there was a truer conspiracy, it has to be the CIA and the lack of accountability, but almost limitless funding that they have. In these days of anti-money laundering regulation (currently now so strict as a result of 9/11), it is probably only the CIA that can move around the world unhindered with suitcases full of greenbacks! There was one ex CIA member (previously with responsibility to monitor the activities of Bin Laden from 1995) whose view was that the only way to reform the organisation was to disband it and start again. Interesting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollocks Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 There was a very good documentary on Sky One this evening, "Secrets of the CIA" charting their 60 year history and their involvement in various world events from, at their genesis, providing immunity to Nazis, through Cuba, Che Guevara, Nicaragua, Afghanistan, Angola, Cambodia, Vietnam, Chile, Iran, etc. etc. In fact, there seems to be few world events that the CIA have not had a finger in during their history. Many of the contributors were ex senior CIA personnel, as well as highly respected jounalists and commentators. One of the more shocking revelations was their involvement in Air America assisting Laos opium producers to export heroin to Vietnam, much of which ended up addicting a substantial number of the US forces personnel fighting the Vietnam war! Also, assisting in the sale of arms to Iran to fund the Nicaraguan Contras against the Sandanistas. We can all remember these events unfolding, but until given a retrospective scrutiny, it is hard to understand at the time just what involvement the CIA had. If ever there was a truer conspiracy, it has to be the CIA and the lack of accountability, but almost limitless funding that they have. In these days of anti-money laundering regulation (currently now so strict as a result of 9/11), it is probably only the CIA that can move around the world unhindered with suitcases full of greenbacks! There was one ex CIA member (previously with responsibility to monitor the activities of Bin Laden from 1995) whose view was that the only way to reform the organisation was to disband it and start again. Interesting... Exactly mate. Now I hope everyone remembers what happened to Kennedy after he suggested that the FBI and CIA be dissipated. Although I believe this wasn't the only reason he was murdered. Consider his views on the Cuban Missile Crisis and Vietnam War for starters. Two things that the CIA were heavily involved in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 This post has been edited with bollocks Fixed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 There was a very good documentary on Sky One this evening, "Secrets of the CIA" charting their 60 year history and their involvement in various world events from, at their genesis, providing immunity to Nazis, through Cuba, Che Guevara, Nicaragua, Afghanistan, Angola, Cambodia, Vietnam, Chile, Iran, etc. etc. In fact, there seems to be few world events that the CIA have not had a finger in during their history. Many of the contributors were ex senior CIA personnel, as well as highly respected jounalists and commentators. One of the more shocking revelations was their involvement in Air America assisting Laos opium producers to export heroin to Vietnam, much of which ended up addicting a substantial number of the US forces personnel fighting the Vietnam war! Also, assisting in the sale of arms to Iran to fund the Nicaraguan Contras against the Sandanistas. We can all remember these events unfolding, but until given a retrospective scrutiny, it is hard to understand at the time just what involvement the CIA had. If ever there was a truer conspiracy, it has to be the CIA and the lack of accountability, but almost limitless funding that they have. In these days of anti-money laundering regulation (currently now so strict as a result of 9/11), it is probably only the CIA that can move around the world unhindered with suitcases full of greenbacks! There was one ex CIA member (previously with responsibility to monitor the activities of Bin Laden from 1995) whose view was that the only way to reform the organisation was to disband it and start again. Interesting... Exactly mate. Now I hope everyone remembers what happened to Kennedy after he suggested that the FBI and CIA be dissipated. Although I believe this wasn't the only reason he was murdered. Consider his views on the Cuban Missile Crisis and Vietnam War for starters. Two things that the CIA were heavily involved in. The programme wasn't trying to establish CIA involvement in any of the more fantastic conspiracy theories, more their role in external politics as a tool of US foreign policy, which with the benefit of 20:20 hindsight were ill-judged serving only to prolong various conflicts and probably spawn more. The programme covered how the CIA supported various regimes who invariably tortured and murdered those of their own who may oppose the regime (usually communist sympathisers). Its a quantum leap of belief to then involve the CIA in, say, the muder of Kennedy because of his opposition to the organisaton. And as far as 9/11 being an orchestrated attack to consolidate the administration's position at home and internationally and eventually justify the war in Iraq, I think the CIA is probably guilty of complacency and incompetence in not reading correctly the intelligence they had, but no more. IMO the CIA is the embodiment of the US's self-appointed role as international policeman, judge and jury; a role which the international community should not continue to tolerate and should seek to re-establish and empower the UN as the correct forum for that role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTool Posted January 3, 2006 Author Share Posted January 3, 2006 The American elite are obsessed with the NEW WORLD ORDER, they want a one world government ruled by the USA probably. Just look at the way they will not let the internet be run by a world organisation they want it all for themselves i guess. I personally think the USA need to stay where they are and leave the rest of the world alone. China is going to be the only challenge to America in the next few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonan3 Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 Given their record of 'competence' and 'ability' (plus the fact that they are American), does anyone seriously believe that the CIA and/or FBI are truly capable of successfully organising any kind of complex and intricate conspiracy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollocks Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 This post has been edited with bollocks Fixed! Twat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinity 23 Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 Given their record of 'competence' and 'ability' (plus the fact that they are American), does anyone seriously believe that the CIA and/or FBI are truly capable of successfully organising any kind of complex and intricate conspiracy? ...I do, Yes... Seems we can all argue as much as we want here about who is right or 'talking shite' but it comes down to us all to choose where you stand... Do you want to be safe and believe that the government is there to protect, serve and do good for all of the people, ALL OF THE TIME? Or are you brave enough to accept that there are 'some' dangerous, twisted and/or fucked up people out there who are prepared to do whatever it takes, behind the scenes, to inflict a change on (or to) world polotics for thier own agendas....? Be it in the government, or behind the scenes... I know where I stand in my thoughts in this one and I have long since learned that as much as I know, I keep my beliefs on the down low. In my experience 'safe' people are all too willing to make fun out of what they dont understand/comprehend ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posters Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 Given their record of 'competence' and 'ability' (plus the fact that they are American), does anyone seriously believe that the CIA and/or FBI are truly capable of successfully organising any kind of complex and intricate conspiracy? Not me. Certainly, if half of the stuff on the program last night was true, I doubt they could manage to plan and execute anything very well. If they did manage to 'pull it off', I'm fairly certain that they would not have correctly forseen any consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 The proramme kept off the normal conspiracy theory-type stuff, but even in its diluted form was a very frightening resume of what the organisation does. I do know that in, certainly two, recent post-conflict arenas, some companies 'bidding' for the reconstruction contracts were CIA-backed. They were, invariably, successful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amadeus Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Not exactly conspiracy-related, but I remember reading about a study a while ago which came to the conclusion that a large part of our "leaders" in society (everyone from your supervisor, to CEOs and high ranked politicians) may actually qualify as "clinically psychopathic". Quick Google later - yep, the study was conducted by a certain Professor Robert Hare at the University of British Columbia - and it seems to be a rather interesting theory: 'Corporate psychopaths' at large LONDON, England (CNN) -- If you work in an office, watch out -- your boss or the person sitting next to you could be a psychopath. But not every psychopath is a budding Hannibal Lecter or Patrick Bateman, the Harvard Business School-educated Wall Street banker with a sadistic murderous streak who is the anti-hero of Brett Easton Ellis' brutal novel "American Psycho". They may not be violent, the New Scientist magazine warns, but their character traits are identifiable as psychopathic and they're helping them climb the corporate ladder. According to Professor Robert Hare, an expert in psychopathy at the University of British Columbia, Canada, "corporate psychopaths" are ruthless, manipulative, superficially charming and impulsive -- the very traits that are landing them high-powered managerial roles. Another interesting article is this one: Is Your Boss a Psychopath? And here's a quick checklist, taken from this article about a report/documentary named "Psychopaths in Suits": ...Grab and pen and try this quick quiz. Answer Yes or No to the following ten questions: 1. Does your boss or workmate come across as smooth, polished and charming? 2. Do they turn most conversations around to a discussion about them? 3. Do they discredit or put others down in order to build up their own image and reputation? 4. Can they lie with a straight face to their co-workers, customers, or business associates? 5. Do they consider people they’ve outsmarted or manipulated as dumb or stupid? 6. Are they opportunistic, ruthless, hating to lose and playing to win? 7. Do they come across as cold and calculating? 8. Do they sometimes act in an unethical or dishonest manner? 9. Have they created a power network in the organisation, then used it for personal gain? 10. Do they show no regret for making decisions that negatively affect the company, shareholders, or employees? If you scored at least six out of ten, there’s a good chance you’ve already met what’s known as an industrial or ‘corporate psychopath’. Still feeling comfortable at work ? As I said - it's not directly conspiracy related, but the theory that a certain percentage of our world leaders and people in high and influental positions may actually have psychopathic tendencies kind of supports the possibility of certain "conspiracies" taking place - more money, more power, more personal gain - without a feeling of guilt or any kind of conscience getting in the way... (that doesn't mean I've changed my mind about 9/11, btw...) Oh, and if you're one of them (or think you are), and don't want to be caught out at the next job interview, then order a copy of The Hare P-Scan: Research Version is a nonclinical tool that serves as a rough screen for psychopathic features and as a source of working hypotheses to deal with or manage suspects, offenders, or clients. It is designed for use in law enforcement, probations, corrections, civil and forensic facilities, and other areas in which it would be useful to have some information about the possible presence of psychopathic features in a person of interest. Catch'em out before they catch you out...that career in politics looks more and more appealing to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonan3 Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 1. Does your boss or workmate come across as smooth, polished and charming?2. Do they turn most conversations around to a discussion about them? 3. Do they discredit or put others down in order to build up their own image and reputation? 4. Can they lie with a straight face to their co-workers, customers, or business associates? 5. Do they consider people they’ve outsmarted or manipulated as dumb or stupid? 6. Are they opportunistic, ruthless, hating to lose and playing to win? 7. Do they come across as cold and calculating? 8. Do they sometimes act in an unethical or dishonest manner? 9. Have they created a power network in the organisation, then used it for personal gain? 10. Do they show no regret for making decisions that negatively affect the company, shareholders, or employees? So, if you try asking those questions of our MHKs, can you think of any who'd score less than the requisite 6 out of 10? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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