Chinahand Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 I worry that Declan's question isn't going to help in the majority of constituencies. Even if you like the answer a particular candidate gives are you going to be able to influence the vote? My gut feel is that most of the races aren't really open; they are a coronation of the sitting member. A major issue with democracy is whether the seats being contested are really open races. Due to Gerrymandering etc the US's re-election rate is almost better than Cuba's with something like 90% of candidates getting re-elected. One candidate has to retire before anyone else gets a looking. I've a feeling the Isle of Man is similar. As far as I'm aware, Mr Speaker in Castletown, Mr Bell, Mr Karren, Mrs Hannan and Mr Corkill etc etc are basically unbeatable: they've got tenure and short of being caught doing a sex act with the governor, a goat and the 3 legs of Man will be re-elected. I don't know nearly enough about other constituencies, but I've a feeling that no matter what Mr Flynn says there are going to be very few really close elections. I know some MHKs have said they won't be re-standing, but unfortunately don't know who they are! Which constituencies do you think we should be sitting up into the night listening out for the returning officer on Manx radio? Not many methinks! Here's my guess from the limited amount of knowledge I have: Can anyone fill in the blanks. Plus who do you reckon they would support for Chief Minister? Maybe Declans question is already irrelevant, maybe enough tenured MHKs already support a candidate?! Though of course this ignores the MLCs Ayre: Teare: Tenure Castletown: Brown: Tenure Douglas East 1: Braidewood: ??? Douglas East 2: Cannel: Tenure Douglas North 1: Houghton: ??? Douglas North 2: Henderson: ??? Douglas South 1: Cretney: ??? Douglas South 2: Duggan: ??? Douglas West 1: Shimmin: ??? Douglas West 2: Delaney: Tenure, but is he retiring? Garff: Rodan: ??? Glenfaba: Anderson: ??? Mallew: Douglas: ??? Michael: Cannan: Tenure, but is he retiring? Middle: Quayle: ??? Onchan 1: Karran: Tenure Onchan 2: Corkill: Tenure Onchan 3: Earnshaw: Tenure Peel: Hannan: Tenure Ramsey 1: Bell: Tenure Ramsey 2: Craine: Tenure Rushen 1: Rimmington: Tenure Rushen 2: Gill: Tenure Rushen 3: Gawne: Tenure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonan3 Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 Unfortunately, too many are re-elected simply because they are good local representatives. Unfortunately, there are too many Manks voters who fail to differentiate between local politics - the preserve of councillors/commissioners - and national politics. I would suggest that, if the local element was to be removed, quite a number would find it difficult to retain their seats, e.g. Brown - Castletown Delaney - Douglas West Capt Douglas - Malew Earnshaw - Onchan Hannan - Peel Craine - Ramsey There are probably others, but those are the first who come to my mind as people without the necessary 'wider' vision to be part of the Island's government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 As far as I'm aware, Mr Speaker in Castletown, Mr Bell, Mr Karren, Mrs Hannan and Mr Corkill etc etc are basically unbeatable: they've got tenure and short of being caught doing a sex act with the governor, a goat and the 3 legs of Man will be re-elected. Mr Corkill unbeatable AFAIK he hasn't been caught doing any 'acts' with goats and stuff like that but there is a widely held public perception that he has dipped his fingers into the £££honeypot that is the grants system, a bit too much. He used to serve me gran her thiroxine tablets or whatever they were and she reckons he is a neat polite chap. So maybe yep, he's in with a good chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTool Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 I have had more sense from Mrs Craine than i have ever had from Mr Bell. I was a bit sceptical about her seeing as she is one of charlies girls but after i chatted to her she seems to be quite pro-active towards ramsey. What i would like to see is an elected Chief Minister, the current system is like a click. I look forward to the next election because i think most people will be voting more carefully. I also want to see the MLC's voted in by the Public at the moment they are untouchable, that is not very fair for the tax payer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celt Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 He used to serve me gran her thiroxine tablets or whatever they were and she reckons he is a neat polite chap. So maybe yep, he's in with a good chance. That's the sad reflection of Manx Politics on the whole,imo. People vote someone in on them, and other, simple principles. I think there could be a good chance Corkill gets back in due to the fact that most people who vote in Onchan are elderly and don't take use off the medias. If it's not talked about in the shops or at the local WI, they most probably will still vote for him. Plus to get him out, you need someone off good standing and is known to the voting public. I personally can't think off any off the cuff who could oust him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonan3 Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 I have had more sense from Mrs Craine than i have ever had from Mr Bell. I was a bit sceptical about her seeing as she is one of charlies girls but after i chatted to her she seems to be quite pro-active towards ramsey. That's exactly the point I was trying to make. It's fine to represent your constituency, but does that make someone fit to take responsibility for the governance of the island as a whole? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Flynn Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 I believe the choice of CM from the current members comes down to Mr Rodan or Mr Shimmin but the long serving members who have worked with each other should be able to make the best choice - having been together on committees etc. Maybe the final shortlist of people recognised by the members with the apprporiate range of talents standing for CM really should be put to the public to make the final decision. Unless the person elected commands the support of Tynwald his(her) position would be unsustainable. So for this reason I do not believe direct voting at the Keys election would work. I agree it is difficult to unseat certain MHK's as they are recognised as good constituency people. This is possibly as it should be because we need a mix of talents. In some respects it is a pity we haven't got a good party system as then we would have a much clearer idea of policy. But it will remain so as the Manx way is to vote for so-called independent candidates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckett Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 A party system isn't the first way to try and diversify policy in Tynwald, it's by not having all 24 MHKs in the Government. 10 Ministers on an Island with 76,000 people is more than enough, this whole 'Member of a Department' is a waste of time, but no doubt nesescary or MHKs not goven a Department would likely stand down as it isn't financially viable, or frankly, worth being an MHK as a full time job. Of course this would skew things without parties as it would be a Government of 10 vs 14. Consitutional Review anyone?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonan3 Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 I think Lonan3 and BillyOneMate would make good MHKs too! Unfortunately I have a sense of humour. Therefore, trying to address some of the people in Tynwald as 'Honourable Member' without bursting into hysterical laughter would be virtually impossible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawnmower Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 The criteria I would use would be:1. Has this person - man or woman got the interests of all the people in his/her heart. I would not want to see division within our community. 2. Will this person have the respect of the people and be able to represent them ably within and outside the IOM. 3. Does the prospective CM have experience at the apprpriate level of Manx politics - maybe business experience etc. 4.In my case I would be asking searching questions to any candidate about health, education, crime, ecoonomy, the environment, social issues. I am probably slightly left of centre on most issues but I would want to ensure the politician would listen to my viewpoint and act responsibly. 5. I may ask about a job but quite frankly this would be the last point. 6. All sorts of things I haven't thought of yet - maybe was he witty, fair, pompous - you know the sort of thing! That Ladies and Gentlemen is a perfect example of BlandSpeak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Flynn Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 The criteria I would use would be: 1. Has this person - man or woman got the interests of all the people in his/her heart. I would not want to see division within our community. 2. Will this person have the respect of the people and be able to represent them ably within and outside the IOM. 3. Does the prospective CM have experience at the apprpriate level of Manx politics - maybe business experience etc. 4.In my case I would be asking searching questions to any candidate about health, education, crime, ecoonomy, the environment, social issues. I am probably slightly left of centre on most issues but I would want to ensure the politician would listen to my viewpoint and act responsibly. 5. I may ask about a job but quite frankly this would be the last point. 6. All sorts of things I haven't thought of yet - maybe was he witty, fair, pompous - you know the sort of thing! That Ladies and Gentlemen is a perfect example of BlandSpeak. I do not disagree with that statement although if I ranted about you making it you may be pleased. It is in my opinion the talk of the reasonable person which whether you like it or not is what the majority of the people vote for. I am not saying they would vote for me but I am saying that they tend to vote for the middle ground. Go to the WI's, the Rotary Clubs etc and there you will find the people who do so. They are middle aged people and older. The younger people tend not to vote in such numbers - they are working. They believe all politicians are self seeking and certainly are not interested in them. I could say I believe in hanging, the birch. Forget anyone who can't help themselves, set the whole place alight. I don't, although once I did in the birch but this is now a non-starter. So I can't make this my policy. But to get the passion into whatever you believe in you have to do it face to face. The media and even this forum because it uses the written word will not do it for you. The media will manipulate someones image to suit themselves. They become typecast and there's little they can do about it. There are rarely any easy answers so solutions which jump out at you are just as likely to be wrong as right. This is why I have not given pat answers but the way I believe you have to think to get to a solution - to get to the answer I believe is right even if you might think otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 Charles In much the same way I wanted to believe that steven is in reality a very intelligent troll, I want to believe that you are a very clever person coming over as a total nice dude yes man politician, you know, to keep us lot on t'forum amused like. Unfortunately I am lead to believe that I am to be disappointed on both counts. Anyway, it's early days yet. I admire your determination. Keep it coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawnmower Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 OK so instead of a bland manifesto identical to all the others (Housing, law and order, blah blah blah - some indication in your previous posts,) how about answering these Yes or No questions, with your personal views, without fudging; More Immigration into IOM by foreigners Population control in IOM Cannabis legalisation Europe - for or against Capiital Punishment Corporal Punishment Al Island Speed Limit Gay Marriage Islam Christianity Is there a God? Global Warming does it exist? War in Iraq Nuclear Energy Mr. Blair Mr. Bush Mr. Kennedy Mr. Cameron Public Schools/private education Private health care Higher Income Tax Lower Income Tax Council housing Now I can answer all those questions with a simple yes or no, no problem at all. Can you do it without fudging? Let's see. And if you lived in the UK which Policital party would you vote for? That's the sort of thing I need to know about my MHK. You see, you don't know if I am a lefty beardy sandal wearer or a believer in Free Enterprise. You don't know what I want to hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mission Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 How does "is there a God" influence our politics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawnmower Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 It influences my view of the person and whether they are worthy of consideration for a post requiring high morals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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