Lonan3 Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 That's one of the questions that I was considering as well - particularly if what another poster said is true, namely that a freemason, if asked, is required to confirm his membership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Flynn Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 I have followed this thread with a great deal of interest but shied away from posting as I live off-island. Also I have never actually voted in any election because I have never had a constituency candidate that matched my political views. However my question to the candidate would be simple and I would like to see Mr Flynn answer. Thinking about the current Chief Constable, how the candidate for Fire Officer from the UK seemed to come from nowhere to favourite and so on my question is this: "Are you or have you ever been a member of The Freemasons or similar secret society?" No conspiracy theory comments please, I just want to be sure that the candidates genuinely want to represent all of their electorate fairly and are not standing for personal gain or to dispense favours. I have been asked to join the Freemasons on three separate occasions. Each time I turned them down because I do not believe in secrecy. I have never been a member of any similar organisation nor would I wish to be. I accept the good Freemasons do for charity but I do not accept the vows which I believe they have to make to be a member. My sole interests are the Church of England and various charitable and environmental bodies - all of which are open to anyone to join. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy One Mate Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Could I ask you Mr Flynn if somebody in your church congregation asked you do something for them as a favour would you??? All this rubbish about secret societys etc. Its Human Nature. You will if at all possible help out or do favours for close friends and associates whether it be at freemasons, golf clubs, rotary clubs, football clubs and I believe members of a choir if you are in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesemonster2005 Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 All this rubbish about secret societys etc. Its Human Nature. You will if at all possible help out or do favours for close friends and associates whether it be at freemasons, golf clubs, rotary clubs, football clubs and I believe members of a choir if you are in it. Yeah but at least with golf clubs, choirs, football clubs there is no secrecy. The problem or assumed problem with masons is that we just don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy One Mate Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 What secrecy is there. Surf the web and I am sure you can find out all you need to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Flynn Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Could I ask you Mr Flynn if somebody in your church congregation asked you do something for them as a favour would you??? All this rubbish about secret societys etc. Its Human Nature. You will if at all possible help out or do favours for close friends and associates whether it be at freemasons, golf clubs, rotary clubs, football clubs and I believe members of a choir if you are in it. Yes I would do a favour provided it wasn't something which was plainly wrong, dishonest etc. Giving help is something I have done all my professional life. I do not know whether the Masonic Lodges as a matter of policy are doing favours which unduly and adversely affect people who are not members. I believe that most masons are honourable people. However I have employed masons in the past. Two of them literally hated each other. Another was giving unauthorised discounts to his fellow masons. Hardly a ringing endorsement! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Strange but true I was once in The Met Police. In 1995 the Police Complaints Authority called for the declaration of Masonic membership for all police officers. They wouldn't do that just for a laugh now would they? The Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) probably have a Masonic membership of between ten and twenty percent so they voted for it as the majority of non-masons recognised that a possible internal secret society was a barrier to public confidence. No surprises there however don't ignore the numbers, of the UK senior police officers a huge proportion are masons compared to the overall membership numbers. The Chief Constable of Manchester David Wilmott was against it and called it "an infringement of personal liberty" - so presumably he is a mason. Wilmott's defence, that membership declaration is "an infringement of personal liberty" is an interesting choice. The best defence of personal liberty is transparency of all those in positions of authority. Police officers, politicians, the judiciary and so on, all those who can influence our lives, should absolutely have transparency of action as a top priority. For example if I am in litigation with a politician over unpaid invoices for building work then I would want to know if the politician and the police involved were masons. Likewise the judge involved. If the politician, the police and the judge all have the best interests of even-handed justice and fairness for all as their shining light then they would WANT you to know they were masons. Because the intense scrutiny of everything that went on by the press and a very interested public would mean that it all absolutely had to be fair and above board. Surely something in a free society that everyone should want. But it seems, in Wilmott's case at least, that transparency is the last thing the Lodge Buddies want. Ask yourself why.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Probably going to get flamed here, but ... How does being a member of some secret society really promote you or your ideals? If you are a complete dork, then surely, the secret society of which you are a member will recognise that and sideline you pretty quickly? It's a rhetorical question, in a way, because at school and at uni, there seemed to be people who were programmed to get involved and who you knew would 'just do well', whereas the rest of us just bumbled along and, in the real world, did equally well. Just a thought, but there are enthusiasts in life, who will always seem to have the upperhand, but perhaps not..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parchedpeas Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 The problem for most with the Masons is that they ARE secret. Therefore, we don't know who is in and who is not. But as for sections of society helping their own - this is surely prevalanet everywhere! Live in the Uk for ten minutes and you will see sections of the community grouping together and supporting one another, even giving jobs and favours out to each other at the expense of everyone else! Maybe the Manx are just jealous because they're not in on it! Answer: start a Manx secret society, where die hard Manxies can offer favours, discounts and benefits to other Manxies at the expense of everyone else. Oh - hold on a minute. Isn't that what we have a government for? (tongue firmly in cheek ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Flynn Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Probably going to get flamed here, but ... How does being a member of some secret society really promote you or your ideals? If you are a complete dork, then surely, the secret society of which you are a member will recognise that and sideline you pretty quickly? It's a rhetorical question, in a way, because at school and at uni, there seemed to be people who were programmed to get involved and who you knew would 'just do well', whereas the rest of us just bumbled along and, in the real world, did equally well. Just a thought, but there are enthusiasts in life, who will always seem to have the upperhand, but perhaps not..? Personal advancement, better career prospects, more money are the usual ideals promised to prospective Freemasons. As you proceed up the ladder extra carrots are held out to you and the upper echelons are full of very wealthy and powerful individuals. Have they got there on merit or simply because they will keep the secrets and have the desired personality for this type of Society? Who knows? It is a system which can definitely be abused especially as the main reason men have joined is because of the benefits promised to them as part of the organisation. These people don't just bumble along - the system is manipulated for their advantage and to the inevitable disadvantage of non-members. May be I have got it wrong - but this is how it looks from the outside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fox Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Being a member of a secret society that demands you pledge a sacred oath of allegiance to it, and it's members, seems to me to be rather like the maffia.. Any ( respectable) MHK would not be a member of such, as they could not be open and honest, and serve the Manx People..... Sadley there are those in our parliament that are membersof the masonic lodge etc. and they should be sacked and branded traitors to the Manx Electorate.. They are out for them selves and their club members..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 What secrecy is there. Surf the web and I am sure you can find out all you need to know. I searched the web but couldn't find which Deemster is a freemason. There have over the past few years been some very surprising decisions made in favour of lodge members. Aye, they gets looked after alright. Which may seem ok for the likes of Billy, but someone, somewhere will be losing out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTool Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Well i have read quite a bit on the mason's and to be honest with you its like an underworld from what i have picked up. I personally have never had a problem with any group of people banding together and doing good deeds for the less well off in our community. What i do have a problem with is the behind closed doors dealings that might be going on (not that i am saying it is going on). I have a good understanding of the mason's now and i am sure some if not most are honest and trustworthy but there will always be bad in every barrel. You will might find that 95% of the most sucessfull companies on the island are actually lodge members. How they become sucessful i will leave upto you to figure out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonan3 Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Probably going to get flamed here, but ... How does being a member of some secret society really promote you or your ideals? If you are a complete dork, then surely, the secret society of which you are a member will recognise that and sideline you pretty quickly? It's a rhetorical question, in a way, because at school and at uni, there seemed to be people who were programmed to get involved and who you knew would 'just do well', whereas the rest of us just bumbled along and, in the real world, did equally well. Just a thought, but there are enthusiasts in life, who will always seem to have the upperhand, but perhaps not..? Unfortunately, most of us (if there were no laws of libel etc) could name a good number of people who were just 'bumbling along' in life and whose sudden, quite unexpected success came about, 'coincidentally,' shortly after joining a masonic lodge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabbyl ushtey Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 If all the MHK's were women there wouldn't be a problem. How about some of the lady members of this forum standing for election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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