sideways Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 It’s not just the job itself that makes the difference, it’s the people doing that job, all this will do is hit the lower end people, they will be out of work. If you don’t think you are being paid enough go find another job, if you can’t get a better paying job then maybe that’s all you are worth. Awaits firework display Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesemonster2005 Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 so its ok for a small factory in Ramsey to pay the minimum wage with no holiday pay or sick pay with the answer if we pay holiday pay we will go bust Yes. No-one HAS to work for them. Better a factory paying rubbish wages than no factory at all. Although there's no forced labour anymore, people often have no choice. They have to take any job. Once you have a job finding another can be difficult because of the time involved and the necessary waiting periods, etc. There are many companies out there which make a mint yet pay their staff basic wages with basic conditions. A minimum wage is a very basic right which should be afforded to all workers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Git Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 But I do believe there should be a safety net minimum, living wage and if a business cannot pay that, then is the job necessary for the continued success of the business? If it is, then it deserves to commensurately remunerated. And if it isn't then get rid of the person. Some people will be going "Woo Hoo - a pay rise!" and others will be going "Boo Hoo - I've been got rid of" They'll probably find it hard getting work elsewhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Git Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 A minimum wage is a very basic right which should be afforded to all workers. But the problem is what level should it be set at. The IOM level is already higher than the UK level and Moffitt wants to increase it by another 40% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 A minimum wage is a very basic right which should be afforded to all workers. Why? All the arguments for a minimum wage seem entirely emotional and moral arguments with little basis in reality. I'm against a minimum wage, for many reasons. Apart from the reason that it can and does force small businesses out of business, it makes it difficult for teenagers, students, part-time workers etc to get jobs. A low-paying job is often the only way for non-skilled people or first time workers to get into the job market, so it hurts them too. It's a basic principle of economics that a lower minimum wage means more people employed, whilst a higher min wage means less people employed. Take a restaurant for example, who currently employ 3 dishwashers at £5 per hour. If the min wage went up to £7.50, would that restaurant then accept that, and pay the difference, or would they get rid of one of the dishwashers so their wage cost doesn't go up? Or, would they decide to buy a mechanical dishwasher and save on all wages - that's another problem with the min wage, it can encourage businesses to lose staff altogether and go for mechanical means to get the work done. Minimum wage can also encourage businesses to move their entire operations somewhere with cheaper labour. That example of a factory in Ramsey - if they can't afford to pay their staff due to demands of minimum wage - there's a likelihood they might decide to move their operation to somewhere foreign - and cheaper. As we all know, this is happening already, and every time wage costs go up, it will happen more and more. No-one forces anyone to take a particular job, it's entirely voluntary, and as such, should be left up to those involved to discuss and agree terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesemonster2005 Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 A minimum wage is a very basic right which should be afforded to all workers. Why? All the arguments for a minimum wage seem entirely emotional and moral arguments with little basis in reality. Emotional and moral arguements are important too. The reality is that the minimum wage in the UK had none of the negative effects which were predicted by economists. Instead more people are now employed (for many different reasons) and higher wages help to stimulate the economy. A well-paid worker is a happy worker and a happy worker is a productive one. One only has to look at businesses which pay low wages to see how service is often much slower and of lower quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Git Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 The reality is that the minimum wage in the UK had none of the negative effects which were predicted by economists. Possibly because it was set quite low? Set it at a higer level and the negative effects might kick in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sideways Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 One only has to look at businesses which pay low wages to see how service is often much slower and of lower quality. Catch 22 are they paid a low wage because they are only capable of a low quality slow service, I personally would work harder so I could work my way out of poor pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesemonster2005 Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 Possibly because it was set quite low? Set it at a higer level and the negative effects might kick in. The UK MW has been increased regularly and is now around 20% higher than when first introduced. The difference between the UK and Mannin minimum wage doesn't represent the difference between average hourly wages. Surely a minimum of 7.00GBP (similar to as suggested by Moffit) isn't too much too ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobe Posted January 7, 2006 Author Share Posted January 7, 2006 the moffatt suggestion, for a 40 hour week, would be 15.4k a year, and you would have to pay that to any employee who is 18, regardless. The minimum wage in the UK was introduced in 1999, so apparently in 6 years its gone up 20%, last year in the isle of man, it went up 14% i think, the moffatt suggestion is an additional increase of 40%. I beleive in a minimum wage, and it should be incrementally increased year on year, but by inflation only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 I beleive in a minimum wage, and it should be incrementally increased year on year, but by inflation only. Don't increasing wages just add to real inflation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 I beleive in a minimum wage, and it should be incrementally increased year on year, but by inflation only. Don't increasing wages just add to real inflation? Not if the increase just keeps pace with inflation, all it does is preserve the spending power, not increase it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Git Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 Surely a minimum of 7.00GBP (similar to as suggested by Moffit) isn't too much too ask. It depends if you're the one having to make the wages each week / month Don't forget there's Employers NI on top of any wages as well so the true employment cost will be higher than the baseline minimum wage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 the moffatt suggestion, for a 40 hour week, would be 15.4k a year, and you would have to pay that to any employee who is 18, regardless. The minimum wage in the UK was introduced in 1999, so apparently in 6 years its gone up 20%, last year in the isle of man, it went up 14% i think, the moffatt suggestion is an additional increase of 40%. I beleive in a minimum wage, and it should be incrementally increased year on year, but by inflation only. Maybe you should give Bernard, who is a long standing friend, some credit for his intelligence and professional capability. While you are at it you could check out the difference between rhetoric and policy! This link should give an idea where thinking on Minimum wages in Europe is heading. EIRO Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 'As a target figure, all European countries should set their sights on a national minimum wage norm of at least 60% of the average national wage. As a short-term interim target, all countries should introduce a minimum norm corresponding to 50% of the average national wage.' If this plan was implemented - then the cheapest solution for business, in general, would be to reduce wages at the top end of the payscale. Thus reducing the average national wage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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