cheesemonster2005 Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4595018.stm Not suprisingly, the Dutch are getting annoyed at the large number of drug tourists visiting their cities and spending money in their country on getting wasted. I, myself, have been a few times to this marvellous country. The Dutch say that drug tourists (I'm assuming mainly from the UK) come to break the law and cause trouble. They also highlight that the rates of people using pot in the Netherlands are very low compared to other countries where pot is illegal. They propose three solutions: 1) other countries liberalise their drugs policy (yay!) so drugs tourists don't need to travel all the way to the Netherlands. 2) they make drugs illegal again and force many of Dutch society into the hands of criminals and stop much toruism to the kingdom. 3) they restrict drugs to Netherlands residents thus ensuring that tourists who would still come would have to buy off dodgy criminals. So what's the best solution to this "problem"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amadeus Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 The Dutch say that drug tourists (I'm assuming mainly from the UK) come to break the law and cause trouble. I doubt they're mainly from the UK - travelling to "A'dam" was some kind of pilgrimage for some people when I was still back home - something that "had to be done" 'cause it's "so cool that you can smoke there". Germany, France, Belgium - they all go there, as it's only a car journey away... The best solution? Make the stuff illegal again, and clamp down on dealers and suppliers - no-one needs another legal drug - we have enough problems with Alcohol and Cigarettes, and Cannabis still hasn't been researched enough to defend the usual "But it's not really that harmful" argument. Sorry - absolute hardliner on this. I've seen a very good friend of mine back home change from a witty and lively person into a typical stoner - no f'ing effort to do anything, and that can't be good... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesemonster2005 Posted January 9, 2006 Author Share Posted January 9, 2006 Germany, France, Belgium - they all go there, as it's only a car journey away... The best solution? Make the stuff illegal again, and clamp down on dealers and suppliers - no-one needs another legal drug - we have enough problems with Alcohol and Cigarettes, and Cannabis still hasn't been researched enough to defend the usual "But it's not really that harmful" argument. Sorry - absolute hardliner on this. I've seen a very good friend of mine back home change from a witty and lively person into a typical stoner - no f'ing effort to do anything, and that can't be good... I know the Germans et al go there but I believe them to be less trouble than the pesky Brits who drink too much, are loud and obnoxious (on the whole, not all). So how will making it illegal again solve the problem? How will this protect users of the drug and how will it help the Netherlands to become crime free? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amadeus Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 I know the Germans et al go there but I believe them to be less trouble than the pesky Brits who drink too much, are loud and obnoxious (on the whole, not all). So how will making it illegal again solve the problem? How will this protect users of the drug and how will it help the Netherlands to become crime free? I can't quite see why you would wish to protect the users of an illegal drug (I know, it's legal there now, but generally, it's not), and why we should worry about something the Dutch government has brought onto itself? They made it legal to smoke cannabis - if they didn't put enough thought into the issue to cope with a situation like this (i.e. loads of people travelling there to have a smoke), then maybe they shouldn't have gone ahead with it in the first place, as that was pretty predictable - even for people without any knowledge about the subject... It's illegal here - it's legal there - what's gonna happen? I know there are loads of studies that crime and drug related offences have gone down since Cannabis was legalised in the Netherlands, but it still fails to convince me, as there can't be any positive arguments for the introduction of another legal drug - we have enough problems with the current ones.. And no country will ever be "crime free" - you can only choose what crimes you want to concentrate on most, and what approach you will take to control it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesemonster2005 Posted January 10, 2006 Author Share Posted January 10, 2006 I know there are loads of studies that crime and drug related offences have gone down since Cannabis was legalised in the Netherlands, but it still fails to convince me, as there can't be any positive arguments for the introduction of another legal drug - we have enough problems with the current ones.. And no country will ever be "crime free" - you can only choose what crimes you want to concentrate on most, and what approach you will take to control it. Yeah but it's not an introduction... Cannabis has been smoked by people for thousands of years - longer than alcohol. It's use as a modern day recreational drug won't go away by making it illegal as has been proven by all countries outside of the Netherlands. Would you prefer that we introduce an illegal drug thereby making criminals out of a minority of the population, putting them at risk and restricting support? Or would you prefer we legalized it so that users knew what they were taking, so they could be taxed to pay for possible health effects and given advice if necessary without fear of prosecution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Yeah but it's not an introduction... Cannabis has been smoked by people for thousands of years - longer than alcohol. It's use as a modern day recreational drug won't go away by making it illegal as has been proven by all countries outside of the Netherlands. Would you prefer that we introduce an illegal drug thereby making criminals out of a minority of the population, putting them at risk and restricting support? Or would you prefer we legalized it so that users knew what they were taking, so they could be taxed to pay for possible health effects and given advice if necessary without fear of prosecution? How did you get to be so sensible ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonan3 Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 At the risk of being both pedantic and wrong; it was my understanding that they didn't actually 'decriminalise' it, merely that they chose to ignore it as far as enforcing the law was concerned. From other things that have happened in the Netherlands recently, eg attempts to ban the wearing of the burka etc, it appears that there is something of a right wing reactionary backlash against many of the liberalised elements of their society, so its hardly surprising that cannabis use has come under scrutiny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesemonster2005 Posted January 10, 2006 Author Share Posted January 10, 2006 At the risk of being both pedantic and wrong; it was my understanding that they didn't actually 'decriminalise' it, merely that they chose to ignore it as far as enforcing the law was concerned.From other things that have happened in the Netherlands recently, eg attempts to ban the wearing of the burka etc, it appears that there is something of a right wing reactionary backlash against many of the liberalised elements of their society, so its hardly surprising that cannabis use has come under scrutiny. They did decriminalise it. They didn't legalise it. Possession was decriminalised in a similar way to the UK but with much lesser sentences. Distribution wasn't decriminalised but they chose to ignore sale of it in licensed shops in small quantities. It does look like Netherlands is changing time and shifting to the right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 1. From other things that have happened in the Netherlands recently, eg attempts to ban the wearing of the burka etc, it appears that there is something of a right wing reactionary backlash against many of the liberalised elements of their society, Some say that the so called 'backlash' is really a defence of liberalism and social tolerance. "We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant." So said the philosopher Karl Popper near the end of World War II. the Dutch policy of gedogen (roughly translated as benign neglect, or looking down your nose while turning a blind eye) has allowed a relaxed, self-regulating street culture to flourish. etc 2. gedogen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the-rhymes Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Outside of the big cities the Netherlands can be quite a conservative place, a lot of people just believe in stereotypes. Anyway, according to the BBC article there are less weed smokers in the Netherlands percentage wise than it's European neighbours. If the Dutch ban it will it not become an underground problem again and will there internal usage rate not increase? I was in Maastricht last year and I did see a lot of Germans and Belgium's paying a visit. The city is basically surround by the these countries so it no surprise really. If the British, Germany and Belgium Governments should have a referendum and see what there own populations think, I think it would be a good exercise in popular democracy. I have always found the Red Light district of the Amsterdam horrid. People that get off the train at Centrall Station and turn left miss the whole point of this lovely, lively and cultural city. If your not into art / history get yourselves to a concert or club night in the MelkWeg or Paradiso, go to the Low Lands Festival or have a day trip to the Efteling. Better still do all of these things! I love the Netherlands! If the Dutch say that we are misbehaving on a whole I think we need to look at ourselves and see how we have bit the hand that feed us. When will we learn that with freedom comes respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the mo beats experience Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Does Portugal have the same sort of liberal view now, haven't they decriminalised stuff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesemonster2005 Posted January 10, 2006 Author Share Posted January 10, 2006 Does Portugal have the same sort of liberal view now, haven't they decriminalised stuff? Yeah they did. It's the same position as in the UK - still effectively illegal but no one cares. Did Mannin change their pot policy at the same time as the UK or would they still nick you for possession on the island? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the-rhymes Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Portugal has decriminalised drugs. They do not have coffee shops though! Two interesting articals here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/823257.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/783079.stm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesemonster2005 Posted January 10, 2006 Author Share Posted January 10, 2006 Portugal has decriminalised drugs. They do not have coffee shops though! Two interesting articals here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/823257.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/783079.stm Interesting. Not sure if I'd like to be treated as someone who's mentally ill if arrested for having a few joints but it's an improvement on locking people up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonty Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 The downtown centre of Amsterdam where all the British go is a seedy shithole, policed by pimps - and the Dutch citizens of the city that I know are embarrassed at what has happened to their lovely city and ashamed of the drug culture, of which they are not usually a part. You will note that they drink and eat elsewhere in the town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.