TheTool Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 If we had decent roads that also might help the problem. Look the problem is not the speed because most people on the moutain stick to 50 to 60 mph anyway. The problem is the jokers who cannot drive correctly, if the police patrolled the mountain a little more that probably would help, there needs to be a large police presence at peak times that way the rate should fall. And also people should be encouraged to report the silly b@stards who over take on corners, if people got £20 when they report a bad driver i bet less people would make rash over taking moves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxchatterbox Posted January 17, 2006 Author Share Posted January 17, 2006 it would be a start if the Police would actively enforce the R plate regime and make some examples of those that speed whilst displaying the R plate....and perhaps introduce a minimum number of lessons that have to have been taken before the first test... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
=^..^= Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 If the police were given the resources to police traffic here properly and apply the laws we have then the number of deaths would drop - and the general standard of driving would improve. But of course that isn't going to happen as it will cost money. If Phil Braidwood has decided that there is going to be a speed limit by looking at 'the evidence as presented to him' rather than what his constituents actually want then it is his look out at election time. He is there to represent the people who elected him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 No to a speed limit for me. I assume it is an increase in RTA's that is making the Gov think about this, how much of the increase can be put down to the increase in traffic due to the rise in the population? I don't want a bigger population here, I didn't ask for one who decided we need a bigger population? Who ever it was must be responsible for the increase not only in the population but also RTA's, crime, house prices etc. etc. they should be locked up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTool Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Trouble is i read somewhere jim that the government want 120.000 population Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 lol the government want! What do the population want? Thats another question to ask come election time then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesemonster2005 Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Trouble is i read somewhere jim that the government want 120.000 population A population of 120.000 would mean cheaper services including flights and ferries because of an increased market. It could also help address the decline in most areas outside of Douglas and Onchan and encourage more younger people to stay on the island. It would greatly help local businesses by proving a bigger market and a bigger profile for the island internationally. The island is not tiny unlike Jersey, Cayman or many other jurisdictions and a population of 120.000 would still maintain the beautiful countryside, coast and glens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cholmondley-Warner Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Trouble is i read somewhere jim that the government want 120.000 population A population of 120.000 would mean cheaper services including flights and ferries because of an increased market. It could also help address the decline in most areas outside of Douglas and Onchan and encourage more younger people to stay on the island. It would greatly help local businesses by proving a bigger market and a bigger profile for the island internationally. The island is not tiny unlike Jersey, Cayman or many other jurisdictions and a population of 120.000 would still maintain the beautiful countryside, coast and glens. Pardon my ignorance, where are these areas of decline in Douglas and Onchan, I'm not aware of any particular areas that meet that description. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxchatterbox Posted January 17, 2006 Author Share Posted January 17, 2006 and the R plate should be for say 3 years duration and all licence holders should have to re-sit the test every three years....with an emphasis towards those skills expected of someone who has undergone Advanced Driver Training.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempus Fugit Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Trouble is i read somewhere jim that the government want 120.000 population It could also help address the decline in most areas outside of Douglas and Onchan Pardon my ignorance, where are these areas of decline in Douglas and Onchan, I'm not aware of any particular areas that meet that description. CW - shuda gone to speksavers If they put 70 and 60 limits on the roads it will subconciously be assumed that that is the speed drivers should be doing despite the conditions. It could well ruin the motorsport visiting trade and hasten the demise of the TT. If there were 120,000 pop, the roads will have to be made into motorways, so the journey Peel to Douglas should then be able to be done at 70mph and take 10 minutes, but then join the queue at Greeba for a parking spot when they fill in the bay for a huge car park, of course using the hardcore from the reopening of the Marine Drive southern coastal motorway I think Tynwald are getting into the same state as Mr Bleah, getting desperate to get things passed, yet no time left to do it properly and ending up with a mess for the next bunch to try and tidy up. (should this thread have had a poll to vote on ?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gadget Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 I rarely exceed 70mph but don't like the principle of somebody imposing a speed limit out of principle. Many people reguarly exceed 70mph on a regular basis but many employ novel ideas such as slowing down for bends or stopping at junctions... Why can't the authorities impose greater driving penalties for the minority of stupid drivers instead of applying a blanket solution to everybody... Oh and could somebody address this stupid trend of people nailing blue lights to their bonnets and bolting stupid green lights to their chassis... And if you're the dipstick who owns that neon ridden scooter try riding it into the harbour... Rant over... Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Enforcer Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 If Phil Braidwood has decided that there is going to be a speed limit by looking at 'the evidence as presented to him' rather than what his constituents actually want then it is his look out at election time. He is there to represent the people who elected him. MHKs and Ministers aren't always there to make decisions based on what the public think, he has mentioned getting public opinion but he also has to consider all the evidence, I personally don't want a speed limit but others do. You can't make big decisions based on what you think will get you more votes next election, there are already too many MHKS like that already who make tactical decisions rather than 'biting the bullet'. Granted many people including myself are a bit miffed by the possible introduction of a 70/60mph limit and if anyone will follow that to the law, but if it does reduce the number of fatalities then you can't really argue. He is basing it on information given to him and will make a decision sooner or later, I prefer to have no limits but then I don't have 100% of the information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amadeus Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 From the IOM Gov's "Strategy for Children and Young People 2005 - 2010": Young people between the ages of 16 - 20 were involved in 728 road accidents which resulted in 899 casualties between 1993 and 2003. They form the highest group of road accident casualties (got no link to that - only the printed version from the Tynwald library) What a surprise...not I'm against a general speed limit - period. It's a quick-fix, solve-all-problems approach that simply doesn't work. Better education for drivers (especially younger ones) and better roads are the right thing, not hastily installed "60" signs, that any self-respecting 18 year old will ignore anyway, so he can feel "cool" while pushing his car to limits he shouldn't push it to... And from the "Road Safety Initiative 2004 - 2007" - Results of the Consultation, Oct 2004": A total of 109 responses were received which were of the opinion that a maximum speed limit should be implemented on the Island. Of those letters, four reasons could essentially be identified which justified this belief. The four reasons can be summarised as: 1. In the interests of road safety (37) 2. Traffic on the island travels too fast (9) 3. “Speed Culture” on the Isle of Man has to be stopped (8) 4. Speed limits reduce accidents (3) These justification arguments were explicitly made in 55 letters. The remaining letters simply stated support for the introduction of a maximum speed limit. There were 281 letters received by the Department opposing the proposal to introduce a maximum speed limit on the Isle of Man. The No Limit petition of 1325 Manx residents should also be taken into consideration at this stage. In terms of reasons quoted for this opposition, a more complex response was received. 16 reasons were identified from the letters received and they are summarised as follows: 1. A maximum speed limit will not achieve the desired aim – often it is poor driving, handling, adverse weather, driver error and inappropriate speed (99) 2. TT would be ruined / detrimental effect on the Island’s economy (81) 3. Isle of Man would lose its unique character / erosion of personal freedoms (47) 4. Impossible to enforce (45) 5. Irresponsible drivers will continue to drive fast irrespective of limits – a maximum speed limit will make little or no difference to the occurrence of serious accidents i.e. will not reduce accident statistics (25) 6. Punishes the majority in order to deter a minority (13) 7. Maximum of 70mph is too low to be a plausible consideration (9) 8. A maximum speed limit will make the roads worse and put drivers under a pressure to go faster (5) 9. Majority of accidents happen at low speeds (4) 10. Proposals are a knee jerk reaction to number of deaths at 2004 TT (4) 11. Imposing a maximum speed limit will only serve to criminalise otherwise law abiding citizens (4) 12. Speed cameras are responsible for a lowering of driving standards – drivers lose their sense of hazard awareness – negative effect on road safety (4) 13. Inadequate signage / lack of warning signs, poor road conditions / causes accidents (3) 14. Accidents are caused by poor road maintenance (2) 15. Waste of police resources and time (1) 16. Most accidents occur in areas which are already regulated by speed limits (1) The most prevalent reason cited for not supporting the introduction of a maximum speed limit to the island is that such a scheme in the opinion of the respondents, would not achieve its desired aim. A large proportion of the respondents felt that rigid observance of a blanket speed limit will not deliver the best road safety but rather places undue emphasis on numerical rather than appropriate speed for the immediate circumstances. In fact it was argued by 5 respondents that the degree of emphasis on numerical speed sends false and misleading messages to road users and may in fact make some drivers feel pressurised into driving at higher speeds than they are comfortable with. Road Safety Initiative Results, PDF file Going by these stats, the majority of the population still seems to be opposed to a general speed limit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumble Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 It strikes me that what Government and the police want is a 'compliant' society prepared to follow their leaders like robots. The police in the UK recently revealed that their drivers had tens of thousand of speeding tickets quashed, citing the importance of their drivers being able to respond quickly to incidents. Whilst I certainly wouldn't want to wait long if a Jack Nicholson type was taking an axe to MY front door, it seems very much a 'one rule for them' situation. And what about the numbers of cops involved in serious accidents...? We should be teaching people to drive well, not slowly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonan3 Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 I don't believe a maximum speed limit would work simply because it could not be enforced - even if our police were reasonably competent. At the same time, any politician who's willing to take up such a potentially unpopular cause - in an election year - is either suicidal or else deserving of some respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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