Who Wants A Speed Limit Of 70mph On The Mountain Road?

[simon]

I disagree. I think that politicians should think for themselves and make their own choices. Rather than tuning their responses in order to represent populist opinion. It's for the electorate to decide whether or not to vote for them.

 

And it is a test of character. A politician has to be prepared to be unpopular - to propose unpopular choices. They should act according to their own opinions and beliefs. Sometimes the right thing is unpopular.

 

EDIT: so I always distrust visiting candidates who ask me what I think. It's for them to stand and act according to what they think.

 

That's interesting to me from England. How different is the Manx political system from the UK? Here, we elect a representative Member of Parliament who's job it is to represent the population of the region he represents. Is this different in IOM?

 

Whilst your political representatives are charged with representing everyone in the constituency, they certainly aren't charged with proposing policy according to the opinions of everyone in that constituency. Many people in any constituency won't even have voted for the MP and may hold completely different opinions. The MP still has to represent them in parliament. And even within a party system - some MPs will obviously oppose party policy. Which is why you get those fantastic maverick politicians who seem to have nothing in common with their parties.

 

In this case - the MHK in question will have been voted in by some who support a speed limit and by others who don't.

[Nick]

In this case - the MHK in question will have been voted in by some who support a speed limit and by others who don't.

 

I understand Simon, so the system appears to be the same. In which case it is the responsibility of the representative (MP/MHK) to ensure that he is representing the interests of the majority of his/her constituents.

[LoneWolf]

I understand Simon, so the system appears to be the same. In which case it is the responsibility of the representative (MP/MHK) to ensure that he is representing the interests of the majority of his/her constituents.

 

where did you get that idea from ?

[simon]

In this case - the MHK in question will have been voted in by some who support a speed limit and by others who don't.

 

I understand Simon, so the system appears to be the same. In which case it is the responsibility of the representative (MP/MHK) to ensure that he is representing the interests of the majority of his/her constituents.

 

In my opinion their responsibility is to do what they think is the right thing as the situation arises. Without reference to what anyone else (or any majority) thinks. Provided that they didn't stand on a specifically contrary agenda.

[maggle]

In answer to cheesemonster: http://www.manx.net/poll/ShowPoll.asp?SurveyID=37

 

In answer to Simon, Representation of the people act 1995, does exactly what it says on the tin. The member should represent the people.

 

Regarding the speed limit issue, we've donw this all to death, both here and on Manxnet. However, it looks like we'll be doing it to death again.

 

Reading through the results of the road safety consultation, I can't see that much has been done yet. IMO, an all island limit won't stop crashes. The majority of what goes on now would continue to happen ever if they slapped a 40 limit on the open roads. People will continue to drive beyond their abilities and crash into stuff.

 

The only way to address this problem is through education. How many people have been driving for many years and picked up bad habits? I have. One hand on the wheel, one hand on the gear stick!

If a car sitting on your tail hits you in Glen Vine, would an all Island limit prevent this?

Would the driver with no license be put off driving by an all Island limit?

How fast does the traffic drive between Douglas and White Hoe?

What about all the clowns parking on the pavements in Athol Street?

 

It seems we have a long way to go regarding education and present law enforcement before we should even be thinking about introducing speed limits.

 

Put up a speed limit and people will drive to that limit, be it 40, 50 or 60 MPH. Can you get round Guthries at 70? Yes you can, the sign says so.

 

It's interesting that no mention has been made reagrding the average speeds over our derestricted roads, only quoting dramatic top speeds by one motorcyclist and "a car"

 

I've signed the petition and would suggest anyone that enjoys freedom and the abiliity to stretch ones legs does so as well.

[Nick]

No it works the same as anywhere else. We elect them and they then do whatever they like for the next 4 or 5 years. Slight correction, in England they do whatever the party whip wants them to do for the next 4 or 5 years. Here they make their own minds up.

 

For the record I dont want to see a speed limit but I would like to see some of the Snaefell boy racers hauled over and held to account for their dangerous driving.

 

If the representative is not representing the region, there must be some way to hold them to account between elections? In England it is a little simpler because of party politics. The winning party will have defined their stance on a number of issues, so the electorate will know generally what they were letting themselves in for, barring bare-faced lies of course.

 

Within England when there was no speed limit, dangerous driving was (& is) still against the law. If people are driving dangerously or inconsiderately around the mountain, then surely this is already against the law & is a matter for the police to decide to do their job. Whether the police need to be encouraged to enforce the law by some constitutional system on the island that I do not understand, or if they take instructions on which laws to enforce direct from the parliament, the legal response surely already exists.

[simon]

In answer to Simon, Representation of the people act 1995, does exactly what it says on the tin. The member should represent the people.

 

That doesn't mean that the member has to postulate or represent the opinions of all of the people. Given that they all think different things - so that would be impossible.

[Nick]

I understand Simon, so the system appears to be the same. In which case it is the responsibility of the representative (MP/MHK) to ensure that he is representing the interests of the majority of his/her constituents.

 

where did you get that idea from ?

 

It's how a representation democracy works.

[simon]

I understand Simon, so the system appears to be the same. In which case it is the responsibility of the representative (MP/MHK) to ensure that he is representing the interests of the majority of his/her constituents.

 

where did you get that idea from ?

 

It's how a representation democracy works.

 

And how would you measure objectively that he is representing the interests of the majority of his/her constituents ??

[Nick]

That doesn't mean that the member has to postulate or represent the opinions of all of the people. Given that they all think different things - so that would be impossible.

 

Good point, but a representative has a responsibility to ensure that he is representing his/her region correctly at all times, especially on issues that are controversial or have strong opinions on all sides.

[nipper]

Regarding the speed limit issue, we've donw this all to death, both here and on Manxnet. However, it looks like we'll be doing it to death again.

No it hasn't been 'done to death'. It's been done and done again, but there's no conclusion yet (or probably ever). You' don't drink in the Rovers with ans do you? Or perhaps you are ans?

 

Plus you've dug up what you think is a corpse and written a good lengthy post .

 

 

Nope, as long as I have the freedom to travel up that there mountain on a quiet afternoon at the speed I judge to be safe for my ability and my vehicle, and as long as MHKs threaten imposing a speed limit, the subject's not done to death, our kid.

 

However, that said, the foolish/drunk/drugged/irresponsible/immature/self-centred etc. in their poor driving seem to be swaying popular opinion. I would sooner take them off the road somehow rather than impose a speed limit.

 

The Isle of Man driving tests should be the strictest in the world. Not given away like sweeties to pubescent teenagers.

[Nick]

And how would you measure objectively that he is representing the interests of the majority of his/her constituents ??

 

That's an easy one Simon. We're not talking about big constituencies here, it's one thing that attracts me to the island as I believe there should be greater democracy. The representative could conduct a poll using the Internet or by post, or even ask constituents to attend a number of public meetings to gauge opinion.

[simon]

And how would you measure objectively that he is representing the interests of the majority of his/her constituents ??

 

That's an easy one Simon. We're not talking about big constituencies here, it's one thing that attracts me to the island as I believe there should be greater democracy. The representative could conduct a poll using the Internet or by post, or even ask constituents to attend a number of public meetings to gauge opinion.

 

The constituents already get the chance every few years to vote whether or not they like the candidate, in general. A referendum on every single issue would mean several votes every week. People would give up bothering. Or how would you legislate a process such that some particular topic deserved an special vote?

 

Also - I just don't want to live in a place where the average man always gets his own way. It also depends upon there always being a this or that solution. As opposed to shades of grey. And the man in the street is a selfish git in most cases I really wouldn't want to live under a populist system. I would much prefer to vote for people who I may not always agree with but who, in general, I trust.

 

I wouldn't expect my friends to hold the same opinions as me on every subject. But I'd probably trust their motives.

[Nick]

Simon I can't argue about what you would personally like from a political system, I was only discussing how representational democracy should work & what could or should be done in particularly divisive cases, for instance, speed limits.

[Declan]

Nick - I think your opinion is rather dangerous.

 

Firstly, no-one really knows what the opinion of the majority of people on the Island think.

 

But if we take the poll Cheesy started, and the Manx Net poll linked to earlier (although neither seem particularly scientific) the views are running at roughly 55% anti to 45% pro.

 

So let's assume that is accurate, and take your view that Braidwood should n't raise the issue because "the majoritty are against it" to its logical conclusion and you are saying that -

 

1. None of 24 Tynwald Members should raise the views of the 45% of the population.

 

2. 45% of the population are not allowed to have their views heard in Tynwald.

 

I think in a healthy democracy the views of as many people should be heard as part of the legislative process. Ultimately, they should lose out, but they should be heard and have the opportunity to convince others. As an example 5 years ago banning smoking in pubs had little popular support, but now it has majority support and will be a reality soon enough. Taking that view would also mean that the likes of Peter Karran should shut up and preserve the status quo - an approach that would be to the detriment of us all.

 

To suggest that a minority view shouldn't espoused by elected politicians becomes more daft, when the politician like Braidwood represents a multi-member constituency.