access55 Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 Wonder what this will start.... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4650788.stm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonan3 Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 JACK STRAW, UK Foreign Secretary Hamas has to understand that with democracy goes renunciation of violence. It is up to Hamas to choose. We will have to wait and see. CONDOLEEZZA RICE, US Secretary of State As we have said, you cannot have one foot in politics and the other in terror. The usual hypocritical, holier-than-thou statements from instigators of illegal wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTool Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 Here here lonan, how can they preach about terrorism when they illegally invade other countries. Pot Kettle Black Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesemonster2005 Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 America isn't in any position to judge about mixing politics with terrorism. Hamas have the support of the people and hopefully with this support they will choose to use their political influences in future rather than resorting to arms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 America isn't in any position to judge about mixing politics with terrorism. Hamas have the support of the people and hopefully with this support they will choose to use their political influences in future rather than resorting to arms. This has to be the worst possible news for the Middle East. Hamas have stated their key objective "To remove Israel from the map" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesemonster2005 Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 This has to be the worst possible news for the Middle East.Hamas have stated their key objective "To remove Israel from the map" Not a great statement but at least they're being open! Israel have tried for decades to erase Palestine from the map but have never admitted it being an official policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 Not a great statement but at least they're being open! Israel have tried for decades to erase Palestine from the map but have never admitted it being an official policy. That is blatantly and obviously untrue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 I think we have to wait and see. The main issue for me is it shows the absolute failure of providing the Palistinians with a moderate choice. But more than that it shows how the Palestinian street just doesn't see any other way of achieving its aspirations than through violence. I am sure this will illicit howls of protest, and I agree this is in no way black and white, but I do feel that for the last 5 years or so part of the problem has been due to Israel's uncompromising position. Yes there is Gaza, but there is also the "security fence" and undertaking "targeted killings" with 1000 Ib bombs in residential areas. BUT the Middle East does now stand on a cusp; and I do respect Ariel Sharon for being a major instigator of this. There is a chance that Hamas will compromise and this will dovetail into the new political movement Sharon has created. I'm sure Rog will be highly sceptical, and the loss of Sharon makes the task doubly difficult, but some terrorist groups, from the Stern Gang to the ANC have realised power is more important than the barrel of a gun. Its too soon to know, but millions of Palestinians have put there hope in Hamas ... lets hope they are able to see the responsibilities they bear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 I think we have to wait and see. Well on this occasion we didnt have to wait too long ! There is already trouble amongst the Palestinians themselves. Almost every Western country has declared negotiations with Palestine as a no go area. The UN has expressed its concern at the election result and, most importantly, Israel has affirmed it will not negotiate with Hamas. Quite a lot all in one day. Israel has, so far, in the face of extreme provocation and unremitting hostility, exercised its right to self defence in a distinctly restrained manner. Just imagine how the UK would react to being surrounded by hostile States and suffering atrocity after atrocity funded by those states. Actually,we dont have to imagine it, take a look at the history of the British Isles. We know what the UK would have done. Of course, opinions on Israel are frequently informed by anti Jewish sentiments rather than an objective look at the whole situation. Iran has already proclaimed its ambition to drive Israelis into the sea, while developing a nucleur capability, and now the disastrous Palestinian election result has made the situation even more tense. For all our sakes lets hope this isnt one step too far towards totally destabilising the region. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesemonster2005 Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 Not a great statement but at least they're being open! Israel have tried for decades to erase Palestine from the map but have never admitted it being an official policy. That is blatantly and obviously untrue. Maybe it is- maybe they have admitted to it being an official policy. Israel, as a state, causes some people to think badly of Jewish people. Many people around the world associate Jewish people with Israel, which is of course not correct, and Israel's actions have created a bad atmosphere for Jewish people who often don't agree with the policies and actions of Israel. Their attitude towards the people of Palestine goes against everything that Judaism is all about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 Maybe it is- maybe they have admitted to it being an official policy. Smart Ass B) Their attitude towards the people of Palestine goes against everything that Judaism is all about. The Israelis have been remarkably restrained in their responses to horrific atrocities committed by Palestinians and which have been funded by other neighbouring States. You shouldnt kid yourself this isnt the case. Israel has a significant military capability and has chosen not to exercise its full potential. I think you might do well do benchmark Israel's actions against those taken by UK at various times in its history in the face of much less provocation than Israel has endured. All the criticism directed against Israel seems to presuppose it, uniquely, should not act to defend itself. Perhaps before you make further coment you could check out the short history of unprovoked military attacks and State sponsored terrorism against Israel since the 1960s. You might then appreciate just how restrained Israel's policy towards its neighbours, including Palestine, is. Whichever way you want to look at it the whole situation in the Middle East has taken a turn for the worst as a result of the Hamas election victory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugger Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 It is official Likud party policy that there should NEVER be a Palestinian state, under ANY circumstances. This became policy through a Likud Party Central Committee resolution passed in 2002 - a resolution that has never been rescinded. Hamas dropped the destruction of Israel from its manifesto for these elections, although it remains part of their charter. It's not a great choice, in my view, for the Palestinians, but they are hacked off at the corruption in Fatah and there are reasons other than loathing Israel for voting for Hamas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 I heard someone being interviewed on the Today programme the other day. They said they were voting for Hamas even though they were opposed to violence (that's the voter not Hamas) because they'd done a lot for them on the local issues, and would make good constituency representatives. Sound familliar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 Hamas dropped the destruction of Israel from its manifesto for these elections, although it remains part of their charter. I dont want to rain on your parade but this is a seriously bad organisation. There is some truth in your assertion that Hamas dropped the destruction of Israel from its manifesto but not a lot. They actually declared a truce for the duration of the election period. Just to get things into context it was a truce which lasted about 2 days. They have reaffirmed their position today by proclaiming they intend to remain an armed organisation. It's not a great choice, in my view, for the Palestinians, but they are hacked off at the corruption in Fatah and there are reasons other than loathing Israel for voting for Hamas Its a terrible choice for the Palestinians. Im also in agreement Fatah is riven with corruption. There may well be other reasons than loathing the Israelis for voting for Hamas but isnt that a bit like saying there were other reasons for voting for the Naxi party other than wanting to murder 6 million Jews ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 It is official Likud party policy that there should NEVER be a Palestinian state, under ANY circumstances. This became policy through a Likud Party Central Committee resolution passed in 2002 - a resolution that has never been rescinded. To be fair it isnt official Likud policy there should never be a Palestinian State. It is, however, true, that the resolution you mention was adopted. Likud is a problem which most folk thought would go away in March at the elections. We will have to hope the success of Hamas doesnt provoke a move to the right in Israel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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