Hamas Secures Victory

[Rog]

There are countless examples of kids being used as mules to carry bombs and explosives.

 

There are also countless examples of 'security forces' murdering innocent people.

 

Countless? I think NOT.

 

There has been the odd case and whenever it was investigated and proven the guilty party or parties have been punished, but there is no formal or informal strategy to attack the innocent by any of the branches of the IDF.

[Tugger]

I do wonder how many people who are so all knowing about what takes place in Israel have even been to Israel or even in a war zone much less been involved in fighting.

 

So many opinions – so little knowledge.

 

To my shame, I was a kibbutz volunteer at a kibbutz in the West Bank, so I've spent quite some time in Israel and the Occupied Territories.

 

Let's hear your incredible credentials now, Rog...

[Bill Posters]

There are countless examples of kids being used as mules to carry bombs and explosives.

 

There are also countless examples of 'security forces' murdering innocent people.

 

Countless? I think NOT.

 

There has been the odd case and whenever it was investigated and proven the guilty party or parties have been punished, but there is no formal or informal strategy to attack the innocent by any of the branches of the IDF.

Really ?

[Tugger]

Was the bloke who killed that Norwegian waiter punished?

[LoneWolf]

The "atrocities" were stone throwning, FFS.

 

And the girl was nowhere near any Israeli civilians - there was plenty of margin between her actual status and being a real danger to any Israeli person. Plus the fact that children have previously been used to suss out security zones hardly excuses killing ALL children who are anywhere near such places (sorry, obviously I only mean ALL PALESTINIAN children).

 

She was " seen to be behaving in a suspicious manner reminiscent of a terrorist", i.e. walking, breathing, looking around in a dodgy Arab fashion - just like Islamic Jihad operatives all do

 

"He can’t see the age of a person from a distance "

 

But he can see clearly enough to put a bullet in her.

 

She's not a casualty of war, she is a murder victim.

 

Thank you for sharing your unbiased opinion with us.

 

How long do we have to wait for your analysis of the numerous Israeli children killed by Hamas ?

 

I'll help you along by stating from the outset the main difference between the killing of children by Hamas and the killing of children by the Israelis. One is a planned act intended to terrorise the other is either an act of self defence or a misjudgement by individuals under stress.

[cheesemonster2005]

Simple question:

 

Who have killed more civilians in the last year in Israel and the occupied territories?

 

I'm sure it's the Israelis. I don't know the full story about the girl recently shot but I'm certainly not suprised. You can talk about 'defending Israel' but at the end of the day the Israelis don't give a shit about the Palestinians. Granted, many Palestinians feel the same as the Israelis and terrorist groups continue to launch attacks on Israel. But Israel is a state and should be acting better than a bunch of terrorists. How can you expect the Palestinians to keep the terrorist groups in order if they have little power, criss-crossed borders and Israeli interference? It's time that the USA stopped supporting the Israelis....

[P.K.]

I do wonder how many people who are so all knowing about what takes place in Israel have even been to Israel or even in a war zone much less been involved in fighting.

 

So many opinions – so little knowledge.

 

To my shame, I was a kibbutz volunteer at a kibbutz in the West Bank, so I've spent quite some time in Israel and the Occupied Territories.

 

Let's hear your incredible credentials now, Rog...

To your shame? How very interesting. In the various wars where the Arab States sworn aim was to push the Israelis into the sea a very large proportion of the IDF casualties were from the kibbutz. I find it odd that you could live amongst them (ok as a farm labourer) and not realise just how patriotic they are. Nor why they would hold the "occupied territories" as a buffer zone. Dear me, why else do you think the Soviet Union supported those who went along with them like East Germany and kept as vassel states the likes of the Baltic States, Poland, Czecho etc etc. The idea of holding territory as "buffer" states is hardly new and when you have been invaded a few times surely only prudent?

 

The Palestians receive more foreign aid per capita than any other group on the planet. Most of it provided by the christian west. That gives Hamas something of a problem. If they have been voted in on a mandate of violence against Israel then to appease their voters they will lose all the aid. If they renounce violence and actually try and build something viable they could lose the popular vote. Unfortunately I suspect the fruitcake brigade will forgo the aid to "strike a blow at Israel!". I hope I'm wrong.

[LoneWolf]

It's time that the USA stopped supporting the Israelis....

 

Rubbish.

Its well past time the rest of the world stepped up its support against terrorism and in particular provided more support for Israel which has borne the brunt of Islamic terrorism over the past several decades.

[haX0red_Account]

agreed- to a palestinian, they would see danger in the form of a uniformed man or woman carrying a firearm in most cases (I know there are killings by plainclothes intelligence etc); to an israeli, danger can be anything from a mentally handicapped kid, a pregnant woman, schoolkid etc; that's the culture hamas & al-aqsa have cultivated from their strategy, to put the crosshairs on every single arab. In reality palestine should be the next big cause- see how the ANC played anti-apartheid. Can't see bono wanting to get involved with them...they've gone a long way to wasting any sympathy that should be extended to them

[Tugger]

I do wonder how many people who are so all knowing about what takes place in Israel have even been to Israel or even in a war zone much less been involved in fighting.

 

So many opinions – so little knowledge.

 

To my shame, I was a kibbutz volunteer at a kibbutz in the West Bank, so I've spent quite some time in Israel and the Occupied Territories.

 

Let's hear your incredible credentials now, Rog...

To your shame? How very interesting. In the various wars where the Arab States sworn aim was to push the Israelis into the sea a very large proportion of the IDF casualties were from the kibbutz. I find it odd that you could live amongst them (ok as a farm labourer) and not realise just how patriotic they are. Nor why they would hold the "occupied territories" as a buffer zone. Dear me, why else do you think the Soviet Union supported those who went along with them like East Germany and kept as vassel states the likes of the Baltic States, Poland, Czecho etc etc. The idea of holding territory as "buffer" states is hardly new and when you have been invaded a few times surely only prudent?

 

The Palestians receive more foreign aid per capita than any other group on the planet. Most of it provided by the christian west. That gives Hamas something of a problem. If they have been voted in on a mandate of violence against Israel then to appease their voters they will lose all the aid. If they renounce violence and actually try and build something viable they could lose the popular vote. Unfortunately I suspect the fruitcake brigade will forgo the aid to "strike a blow at Israel!". I hope I'm wrong.

 

Your banging on about the settlements being a "buffer zone" might hold some weight as a justification if it were at all shared by the architects of the settler movement. It isn't, of course - the real reason for settling the land is ideological (a view shared by such anti-semitic publications as the Economist). I don't doubt the kibbutniks' patriotism, but fail to see where that gets you. I'm sure Stalin and King Leopold of Belgium were fiercely patriotic as well, but it didn't stop them being murdering assholes.

 

The Israelis are, of course, the largest recipients of US aid in both absolute and per capita terms. The aid is mainly in armaments, of course. I wonder if the gun that shot this 9 year old girl through the neck was paid for out of the US aid budget.

 

Frankly, it's about time the UNSC resolutions about the settlements were passed under Chapter VII rather than Chapter VI

[LoneWolf]

Frankly, it's about time the UNSC resolutions about the settlements were passed under Chapter VII rather than Chapter VI

 

In your biased opinion, of course.

This is a view shared by numerous apologists for Islamic terrorists.

[Tugger]

Frankly, it's about time the UNSC resolutions about the settlements were passed under Chapter VII rather than Chapter VI

 

In your biased opinion, of course.

This is a view shared by numerous apologists for Islamic terrorists.

 

Well, sometimes even the apologists get it right by accident. But putting an end to illegal land theft does not equate to being such an apologist

[LoneWolf]

Well, sometimes even the apologists get it right by accident. But putting an end to illegal land theft does not equate to being such an apologist

 

Maybe not in isolation. However, in your case we have the main body of the posts you have made on this thread to examine.

In my humble opinion you would benefit from an objective study of the recent history of the region.

In particular you need to understand how and why the occupied territories came to be occupied in the first place.

[Tugger]

Well, sometimes even the apologists get it right by accident. But putting an end to illegal land theft does not equate to being such an apologist

 

Maybe not in isolation. However, in your case we have the main body of the posts you have made on this thread to examine.

In my humble opinion you would benefit from an objective study of the recent history of the region.

In particular you need to understand how and why the occupied territories came to be occupied in the first place.

 

Oh PLEASE don't try to tell me that you're passing YOUR opinion off as unbiased. I mean, you might be considered a moderate at a Likud party function (STILL haven't found me that resolution rescinding their official policy that there should NEVER, under ANY circumstances, be a Palestinian state, have you?) or an Arutz 7 get together, but nowhere else, chum.

 

Frankly, why bother with Chapter VI resolutions unless the actions concerned are wrong; and if they're wrong, well, why not go for Chapter VII. And it's not the occupation I object too - I can certainly see security justifications for that. But the settlements are a different matter altogether, and are just plain THEFT

[LoneWolf]

Oh PLEASE don't try to tell me that you're passing YOUR opinion off as unbiased. I mean, you might be considered a moderate at a Likud party function (STILL haven't found me that resolution rescinding their official policy that there should NEVER, under ANY circumstances, be a Palestinian state, have you?) or an Arutz 7 get together, but nowhere else, chum.

Likud isnt a terrorist organisation Hamas is: end of story.

Likud as a party is increasingly marginalised in Israel. Hopefully that will remain the case in the wake of recent events re: Palestine elections.

Likud is an extreme right wing party but the resolution you mention has yet to appear as published party policy. As of tonight its policy remains one of "there should be no unilateral declaration of a Palestinian State"

For the avoidance of doubt there is nothing in the policies of Likud, notwithstanding their extreme position, which incites Israelis to murder or to become suicide bombers. Compare that to Hamas.

Its you making the one sided assertions, not me. Its you who flagged Israeli soldiers killing Palestinian children but ignored Hamas terrorists killing Israeli children. It is you who has chosen not to mention Hamas using children as terrorists and thus ensuring they will be treated as suspicious or possible sources of danger.

 

And it's not the occupation I object too - I can certainly see security justifications for that. But the settlements are a different matter altogether, and are just plain THEFT

 

Its difficult to see how the occupations could ever be brought to an end given the hostility of those surrounding Israel.

Regarding the settlements Im afraid you need to make that objective study of the recent history of the region paying particular attention to how and why the occupied territories became occupied.

You are doubtless aware a small majority of Israelis do not support the settlements and you may recall, if you are minded to, that Sharon had demonstrated his willingness to bargain away the settlements in return for concrete security measures.

I do not imagine that willingness would still exist, even if Sharon was still about, given the election success of Hamas. I would certainly hope not.